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Thread: Mark Ruffalo and Tom Morello launch Robin Hood tax plan to outlaw Wall Street excess

  1. #31
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    Re: Mark Ruffalo and Tom Morello launch Robin Hood tax plan to outlaw Wall Street exc

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    No...I think 'most people' during that time period were interested in shletering as much of their taxes as possible, in overextending themselves on credit cards, and buying homes they couldnt afford based on ARMs so they could find a way to turn a nice little profit for themselves. Heck...I KNOW college students were taking out student loans (and loans not just for their 'education'-you know...that degree in culinary school, massage therapy, a worthless liberal arts degree, etc, but also for 'living/partying' expenses. If you dont think average Joe Schmuk isnt as invested in gaming the systems to make a buck, just on a smaller scale, than those that were doing things within the banking system then I think you are fooling yourself and frankly...I dont think you are fooling yourself.

    You will never find anywhere were I have excused corrupt practices and by all means they should fix corruption. Heck, I'm one of the first and maybe THE first very fiscal conservative type here that will come out loudly and say there has to be an increase in taxes-and have said so for what...2 years now? But not before the other components of a 'fix' are in place and certainly not as a means of putting more revenue in the hands of the government. Demonizing one segment of society as 'the problem' (and especially a segment so enmeshed with politicians on both sides of the aisle) is mere populism. Its telling a bunch of irresponsible people...look at them...its all their fault...get em! It is...in a word...bull****.

    I couldn't disagree anymore. While I do agree that credit was (is) a problem, it has nothing to do with the financial collapse (well, aside from the faulty mortgages). And I just don't think you fully understand the practices used by these predatory lenders and what they did to get them. Hint: they didn't care one iota if the loans were paid back or defaulted. Pretty shocking, isn't it? Once again, I urge you to watch the Frontline piece that hits hard on both the Dems and Republicans. You won't regret it.
    No men are anywhere, and Im allowed to go in, because Im the owner of the pageant and therefore Im inspecting it, Trump said... Is everyone OK? You know, theyre standing there with no clothes. Is everybody OK? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.

  2. #32
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    Re: Mark Ruffalo and Tom Morello launch Robin Hood tax plan to outlaw Wall Street exc

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    I couldn't disagree anymore. While I do agree that credit was (is) a problem, it has nothing to do with the financial collapse (well, aside from the faulty mortgages). And I just don't think you fully understand the practices used by these predatory lenders and what they did to get them. Hint: they didn't care one iota if the loans were paid back or defaulted. Pretty shocking, isn't it? Once again, I urge you to watch the Frontline piece that hits hard on both the Dems and Republicans. You won't regret it.
    Its not shocking and anyone that considered those 'predatory' loans was complicit. BTW...what a misnomer. Im sorry...people KNEW what they were doing. They knew they were in over their heads. They didnt care. They managed to excuse and to justify. They SOUGHT the loans...it wasnt the other way around.

    Im not shocked we disagree. You want to focus on the bankers. I focus on EVERYONE. I am exasperated by all the people running around making excuses for their miserable existence and failings. Its not their fault...the evil banks made them dump credit cards, car payments, and every other debt they had into loans they couldnt afford to buy a house they couldnt afford...it was the banks fault. Sorry...everyones dirty from the politicians to the bankers to the private citizen that cheats on his or her taxes. Everyone carries the responsibility and is going to have to shoulder the load if it is going to change. Or...not. Continue to blame the bankers. Join the crowd...lots of willing people right along with you.

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    Re: Mark Ruffalo and Tom Morello launch Robin Hood tax plan to outlaw Wall Street exc

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Its not shocking and anyone that considered those 'predatory' loans was complicit. BTW...what a misnomer. Im sorry...people KNEW what they were doing. They knew they were in over their heads. They didnt care. They managed to excuse and to justify. They SOUGHT the loans...it wasnt the other way around.
    You could not be more wrong.

    Does it not bother you that the lenders did not care about repayment?
    No men are anywhere, and Im allowed to go in, because Im the owner of the pageant and therefore Im inspecting it, Trump said... Is everyone OK? You know, theyre standing there with no clothes. Is everybody OK? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.

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    Re: Mark Ruffalo and Tom Morello launch Robin Hood tax plan to outlaw Wall Street exc

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    You could not be more wrong.

    Does it not bother you that the lenders did not care about repayment?
    Bothers me to the extent I advocated congress making 3 little changes in the laws...1-no bailout of any kind, 2-insisting banks negotiate long term low fixed interest rates for borrowers under water, and 3-any lender that went bankrupt was on the hook for the amount and the home title went to the borrower free and clear. I understand how the game is played....better than most. I have several investment properties and I was one of those people considering getting in over my head on our 'dream' property. I also completely get their are 2 players in every home loan.

    The system was screwed up. Bankers took advantage of it and oh baby, you better believe...so did borrowers. You want to keep mindlessly demonizing the eeeeeviil bankers...go right ahead. That solves...well...nothing...but...ok.

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    Re: Mark Ruffalo and Tom Morello launch Robin Hood tax plan to outlaw Wall Street exc

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    WOW. Some lefty loons have invented a new tax.
    That **** gets old, from both sides. It gets old. Just so you know, I'm getting to the point that when I read that tripe from right or left I immediately stop reading the post. I don't have to read anymore because I know that the poster isn't really looking for an agreeable solution. What they want is their side to be right. This ain't a football game we're talking about. If all you are interested in your side being right then you have nothing to offer.

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    Re: Mark Ruffalo and Tom Morello launch Robin Hood tax plan to outlaw Wall Street exc

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Some good points in your post...but fundamentally flawed.

    It's already been stated in this thread, but the problem is not that Wall Street (or any other industry) is getting too much money from the government. Rather, it's the government giving too much money to them. Stop the government from giving and the rest of the issue is moot.

    Taking more money out of the economy and giving it to the government to spend is a foolish exercise.
    The problem is both and that is why I call it corpgov. Neither part is responsible to the people whose money they took without consent. Think of it as a tax on Americans taken without and given to gambling whores who know government will make certain their bets are covered. In fact they own government and government now controls the People.

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    Re: Mark Ruffalo and Tom Morello launch Robin Hood tax plan to outlaw Wall Street exc

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    That **** gets old, from both sides. It gets old. Just so you know, I'm getting to the point that when I read that tripe from right or left I immediately stop reading the post. I don't have to read anymore because I know that the poster isn't really looking for an agreeable solution. What they want is their side to be right. This ain't a football game we're talking about. If all you are interested in your side being right then you have nothing to offer.
    Budget deficits are simply the result of gov't spending more than taxation covers. This nation now spends 40% more than it dare ask for in taxation. A "plan" to add more taxation, targetting a single category of business transactions that just happen to be the NAMED target group of OWS, is a bit more than "coincidence", IMHO. Since you decided NOT to even read the post, that you responded to, you could not see that it contained an ALTERNATE VOLUNTARY new revenue proposal, as well as a call for reduced gov't spending. Most of us, do not have the option of simply demanding a raise from our boss, when we find that we spend more money than our pay covers, we must "budget" and live within our means, based on CURRENT income. The OWS crowd as yet to come to grips with this basic fact, and continue to believe that the gov't may not only spend ALL that it now does, but far, far MORE if only some anonymous "rich guys" and big corporations would simply pay over 40% more in taxes than they now pay.

    Do YOU support this "Robinhood tax plan", and if so, can you tell me how much money YOU think it would generate? It is EASY to say TAX THE RICH, but much harder to look beyond that, just a WEE bit, and see that "the rich" are no more than those that provide the goods and services which are consumed by ALL; that added cost of taxation WILL BE added to the costs of those goods and services that we ALL use, so we will ALL pay more taxes. That REALLY hurts those at the bottom MOST, since they must now spend ALL of their pay on those goods and services - they then must simply make do with less of these goods and services, when their price goes up due to added taxation.
    The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Mark Ruffalo and Tom Morello launch Robin Hood tax plan to outlaw Wall Street exc

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    At the end of the day...Wall Street is a BUSINESS. It is a business designed to make profit. Wealthy people invest. Low to mid income people invest. This continued insistence on demonizing Wall Street and scapegoating them is mindless.
    Everyone in the proposed bill in the OP will be taxed the same percentage. How is that unfair? I don't understand the argument. If I invest, if Romney invests, if Tom Cruise invest the stock market, if a little old pensioner on a fixed income buys a few shares ALL pay the same less than 1% tax. What part of that is unfair?

    Why Wall Street? Why not EVERY business with sales of products over $100? You know the answer...but I dont know if you will admit. The continued attack is on Wall Street because they are an easy target...because all the mindless people can wander around like zombies or pod offspring from the Invasion of the Body Snatchers and can point and gasp. Why Wall Street?
    Because they have proven to be unworthy of trust. Because when they make "mistakes" the world stumbles to its knees to pay for Wall Street unforgivable greed and corruption. Because we can't keep paying. Because we have little to no say in the risks taken, but because Wall Street owns Congress and the White House we pony up the money. When the bets payoff the 1% makes massive gains. Because what they have done is often illegal and Washington will do little about it.

    Because they are successful.
    NO! They are not successful. They lost their collective asses playing with someone else's money and then playing with money on money and credit on money and then money on credit for things they didn't own! There were NOT successful. They were greedy and reckless and foolish and selfish and they ****ed up. They ****ed it up. And they have not learned that they cannot do that and get away with. Most did get away with it. That's what they've learned. Recently JP Morgan, for Christsakes, did it again. Why? Because they can. They really have nothing to loose and everything to gain.

    But they were not successful. They failed. But the same system remains in place so that they will continue to have Jane and Joe Sixpack cover their losses when they fail again.

    Why doesnt our Hollywood actor propose a tax on every movie ticket sold...every item sold at a theater? Talk about your luxury products that serve absolutely NO purpose other than to make one elite set of people very wealthy... Or every CD download, concert ticket sale, T-shirt or other merchandising items?

    Hypocrisy abounds. Why Wall Street and not Hollywood?
    That is argument is not related to the OP. You are attempting to divert the argument. It is completely unrelated.

    And for the love of all things...when will people finally insist that DC change its game before they raise another dime in taxes? Giving crack addicts more rocks and expecting them not to light em up is just silly. Giving congress more money and expecting them to suddenly become responsible is more so. But then...those calling for taxes dont WANT congress to be more responsible...they want them to spend more money. On them. Huh. Maybe THATS why the attacks on Wall Street are such an easy sell...ya think?
    Again that's worthy of consideration but it isn't what the OP is addressing.

    I believe we'd all like to see farm subsidies drastically reduced. Everyone wants oil subsidies to end. Most people want to reduced military spending. Most everyone want to end earmarks and pork barrel legislation. Most Americans want a reduction in foreign spending. We all want more responsible government. Most of us know that we will not get more responsible government from Democrats or Republicans. They are very much a part of the problem. They cannot be part of the solution. I agree that is a huge issue. However, none of that is germane.

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    Re: Mark Ruffalo and Tom Morello launch Robin Hood tax plan to outlaw Wall Street exc

    Quote Originally Posted by jpevans View Post

    Another vote for increasing taxes on the wealthy, although we're looking for a 3% increace. The .5% tax on transactions we will call a Fee, former Massachuttes Governor Willard M. Romney will be down with that, as he doubled & tripled of more "Fees" on most small businesses in the state, & by small I don't mean Koch Bros. small, I mean barber shop small.
    OK. That reduces the federal deficit from its current 40% to 38%. The next baby step is?
    The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Mark Ruffalo and Tom Morello launch Robin Hood tax plan to outlaw Wall Street exc

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    Everyone in the proposed bill in the OP will be taxed the same percentage. How is that unfair? I don't understand the argument. If I invest, if Romney invests, if Tom Cruise invest the stock market, if a little old pensioner on a fixed income buys a few shares ALL pay the same less than 1% tax. What part of that is unfair?
    Because they have proven to be unworthy of trust. Because when they make "mistakes" the world stumbles to its knees to pay for Wall Street unforgivable greed and corruption. Because we can't keep paying. Because we have little to no say in the risks taken, but because Wall Street owns Congress and the White House we pony up the money. When the bets payoff the 1% makes massive gains. Because what they have done is often illegal and Washington will do little about it.



    NO! They are not successful. They lost their collective asses playing with someone else's money and then playing with money on money and credit on money and then money on credit for things they didn't own! There were NOT successful. They were greedy and reckless and foolish and selfish and they ****ed up. They ****ed it up. And they have not learned that they cannot do that and get away with. Most did get away with it. That's what they've learned. Recently JP Morgan, for Christsakes, did it again. Why? Because they can. They really have nothing to loose and everything to gain.

    But they were not successful. They failed. But the same system remains in place so that they will continue to have Jane and Joe Sixpack cover their losses when they fail again.



    That is argument is not related to the OP. You are attempting to divert the argument. It is completely unrelated.



    Again that's worthy of consideration but it isn't what the OP is addressing.

    I believe we'd all like to see farm subsidies drastically reduced. Everyone wants oil subsidies to end. Most people want to reduced military spending. Most everyone want to end earmarks and pork barrel legislation. Most Americans want a reduction in foreign spending. We all want more responsible government. Most of us know that we will not get more responsible government from Democrats or Republicans. They are very much a part of the problem. They cannot be part of the solution. I agree that is a huge issue. However, none of that is germane.
    They are successful...thats the only reason people a-continue to demonize them and b-continue to look to them as the 'solution'. But again...by what right do you promote targeting a tax on one segment of society and how do you expect that to NOT look like exactly what it is? Tax the rich. Tax the one percent. Tax Wall Street. Tax the bankers. Why? Because thats how people choose to make their money? Why not an across the board tax on any and every purchase over 100 dollars in every market? Why not an entertainment tax? Dont blame individuals, dont blame congress, dont target entertainers (even though last I checked they really really really wanted us to). No...target 'Wall Street'. Why? Because the message plays to the kids...doesnt it.

    Tax EVERYONE. Gut spending. Or...not. Keep playing the kind of mindless populist games that continue to exacerbate the problem.

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