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Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/226]

Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

'Ya know, Bush invoked executive privilege, and it was wrong, but that doesn't mean that people should turn their heads when Obama does it. Bush was a terrible president, but he is no longer the president. Obama is, and he is doing the same terrible presidential type stuff Bush did. Why are Democrats supporting this? Ahh, I think it's because Obama has a D after his name instead of an R.

I'm pretty sure the difference is that Bush invoked executive privilege over conversations between himself and Gonzales, not DOJ documents. Plus, I don't remember anyone ever questioning that Bush was involved in the discussions over the attorney firings. See the above Congressional Report about the last 40 years of Executive Privilege( http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/104284.pdf )
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

'Ya know, Bush invoked executive privilege, and it was wrong, but that doesn't mean that people should turn their heads when Obama does it. Bush was a terrible president, but he is no longer the president. Obama is, and he is doing the same terrible presidential type stuff Bush did. Why are Democrats supporting this? Ahh, I think it's because Obama has a D after his name instead of an R.
Except that with the Bush EP it was done for two major issues. One was the Plame "leak" which turned out to be fabricated and they didn't even pursue the right person. The other issue was the dismissal of eight attorneys, perfectly within the purview of the executive(Clinton fired all of them with no incident as it should have been). This isn't in any way fabricated, the trail leads right to the feds and a bungled gun running scheme, people who shouldn't have been killed were, and any one of us would be in a heaping pile of **** had we done the exact same thing. I'm not excusing the Bush EPs and frankly those should be severely short in scope, but let's be honest, this is not apples to apples and we are talking about illicit weapons usage, purchase of such under federal watch, a suspect suspension of other bodies from doing their jobs which led to a huge bungle and loss of life, this is as criminal as it gets.

EDIT - by the Plame leak being fabricated I am speaking to the fact that her "covert" status was suspect, not that the leak didn't happen.
 
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Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

I'll ask again, maybe I missed the answer in the scrum - has Obama actually asserted Executive Privilege, or is this just Holder floating that balloon for the Obama admin. If so, what basis did he give for the assertion of EP?
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

hahahaaaaa.. you said reliable source ( which you proved you have no idea what one is).. not yellow journalism out of liberal rags that are Obama cheerleading squads...

thanks .. I need the laugh...

Yes, but according to you that's every source that isn't a right wing blog. So the only thing you'll listen to is anything anti-Obama.
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

Nice try, Mr. I Love Obama, but even the president's own press secretary did not even try that angle. The angle being used is that these documents are INTERNAL executive branch communications basically about what not to disclose. LOL

Link: Watch: Fox News Reporter Ed Henry Challenges Jay Carney on Executive Privilege During WH Press Briefing | Fox News Insider

Well, Mr. I Hate Obama, I suggest you read the actual letter sent to the committee announcing the invocation of the privelege. http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/national/20120621-holder/062011Letter.pdf
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

Yes, but according to you that's every source that isn't a right wing blog. So the only thing you'll listen to is anything anti-Obama.

it has nothing to do with me but the other poster saying he was using "reliable sources".... unless its the WSJ.. there is not many..

but try this on as its on subject.. and quite rich with liberal hypocrisy.. which is all liberals have..

Larry O'Connor 21 Jun 2012, 11:24 AM PDT 170post a comment

How easy it must be to live your life as Al Sharpton does. Only the race-baiting NBC News star can look at the tragic events of the Fast and Furious scandal that ended with the death of a border patrol agent and see Attorney General Eric Holder as the real victim.
In the Huffington Post yesterday, Mr. Sharpton likened the House Oversight Committee's contempt vote on America's chief law enforcement official to the NYPD practice of "Stop and Frisk" which critics call a racially motivated police state tactic.

As I marched this past Sunday with tens of thousands in New York in opposition to the abhorrent practice of stop & frisk,' I couldn't help but think of our attorney general. Tattered down and publicly humiliated, AG Holder has been mishandled just like the young Black and Latino men (and women) who are demonized on our streets everyday. Chris Matthews of Hardball on MSNBC concurred: AG Holder is being profiled, stopped and searched.

Sharpton informs his HuffPo readership that Rep. Darrel Issa's (R-CA) committee has treated Holder in a snappy and demeaning way:

The highest officer of law and order in this nation has been ridiculed, scapegoated and handled as some sort of criminal throughout this 'investigation.' Turning over thousands of documents and overextending himself, AG Holder was spoken to and mistreated as if he were a child, and reminded that despite his esteemed position, he can and would be profiled.

Of course, the good Reverend never provides an example or a link to back up his claim. The reader is merely left to trust Sharpton on his assertion of racist behavior. And why shouldn't we? After all, his charges of racism in the past have been spot-on and always truthful. When you have a track record like his, you don't need to provide evidence of your irresponsible charge, your word is as good as gold.

Attorney General Eric Holder famously said that America is a "nation of cowards" when it comes to race. This was his first public pronouncement as the newly-sworn AG. If you tend to agree with Holder on this, can't we possibly excuse our hesitance to discuss racial issues on the obvious fact that race-peddlers like Sharpton use race as a cudgel to pound political opponents into the ground? In fact, Sharpton has made a lucrative career out of injecting odious racial politics into every single issue of American life...snip

SHOCK: Sharpton Blames Holder Contempt Charge On Racism


this would be considered right wing.. but can you argue with any of it?
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

this would be considered right wing.. but can you argue with any of it?

First of all, that's one guy's comment on a story, so I would expect that one guy to be biased as we all are.

Regardless, you're throwing out sources like the Washington Post simply because you think they're an "Obama cheerleader." (They are liberal, BTW). If you throw out everything that has been said by a Liberal source, isn't that just about everything according to many on the right.
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

From the previously posted http://graphics8.nytimes.com/package...2011Letter.pdf

As I noted at the outset, the President, in light of the Committee's decision to hold the
contempt vote, has asserted executive privilege over the relevant post-February 4 documents.
The legal basis for the President's assertion of executive privilege is set forth in the enclosed
letter to the President from the Attorney General

I see where the Atty General is advising the POTUS to claim EP (in the not included letter), and the reasons he thinks it's okay to do so, but that isn't how a declaration of EP works. Where's the president's letter to congress asserting the privilege and explaining the legal reasons for doing so?
 
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Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

First of all, that's one guy's comment on a story, so I would expect that one guy to be biased as we all are.

Regardless, you're throwing out sources like the Washington Post simply because you think they're an "Obama cheerleader." (They are liberal, BTW). If you throw out everything that has been said by a Liberal source, isn't that just about everything according to many on the right.

I thought the articleshowed just how vile the Dems are on pulling the race card, how coordinated that race card defense is used..... its a well done article..

can you argue with a line of the article?
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

I thought the articleshowed just how vile the Dems are on pulling the race card, how coordinated that race card defense is used..... its a well done article..

can you argue with a line of the article?

You're changing the subject.

What source will you accept as "un-Liberal" enough from a decent newpaper or TV network?
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

it has nothing to do with me but the other poster saying he was using "reliable sources".... unless its the WSJ.. there is not many. [...]
All the sources the other poster cited were using, as their source, the actual FBI ballistics report or officials with knowledge of that report.

Since the absolute truth of that report destroyed your argument, you ignored it and instead attacked those reporting the truth. The failure in that tactic is epic.
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

[...] What source will you accept as "un-Liberal" enough from a decent newpaper or TV network?
Anything owned by Rupert Murdoch, it seems.
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

[...] this would be considered right wing.. but can you argue with any of it?
Since it is merely ad hominem opinion, why bother to argue with any of it? Opinions are not fact, an observation that clearly escapes many. That the bullet that killed Terry cannot be linked to a specific weapon is, for all intents and purposes, fact (expert legal opinion). Any idiot can have whatever idiotic opinion about that as they may desire, but it does not and can not change the facts of the matter.

Nor can it change the fact that anyone claiming a F and F gun killed Terry is perpetrating a falsehood; and by strict definition if they know it is false then they are lying.
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

Well, Mr. I Hate Obama, I suggest you read the actual letter sent to the committee announcing the invocation of the privelege. http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/national/20120621-holder/062011Letter.pdf

Clever again. Supply a letter NOT FROM OBAMA. The DOJ can not define or claim EP, only the POTUS, perhaps they will update Obama's teleprompter script soon or supply him an updated EP request form letter, but that is NOT the word, so far, issued from Obama and the WH. I supplied the WH spokesman link, you counter with a DOJ lawyer's OPINION in a reply to congress.
 
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Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

They did not "lift the rules", they ordered ILLEGALLY that the current law be ignored, so that they could let KNOWN drug cartel straw buyers flood the area with thousands of TRACEABLE U.S. bought weapons, hoping for headlines like "Mexican cartels execute hundreds using legally purchased U.S. firearms" and then get very strict gun control laws passed since even most, hard core, gun toting, rednecks hate the Mexican drug cartel thugs. ;-)

Any proof for this theory?
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

Clever again. Supply a letter NOT FROM OBAMA. The DOJ can not define or claim EP, only the POTUS, perhaps they will update Obama's teleprompter script soon or supply him an updated EP request form letter, but that is NOT the word, so far, issued from Obama and the WH. I supplied the WH spokesman link, you counter with a DOJ lawyer's OPINION in a reply to congress.

How silly. The DOJ works for Obama. In this case they were speaking for the administration. This was the letter sent to Issa to formally announce the invocation of privilege. You should read it so you can have some clue what this whole hooha is really about.
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

Any proof for this theory?

No proof one way or the other. Strong suspicions, but as of now, no proof. That is why the investigation.
Holder is being held in contempt not because of executive privilege, but because at this point, there is no executive privilege. There is only the claim. Only the president can claim executive privilege, and he hasn't.
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

No proof one way or the other. Strong suspicions, but as of now, no proof. That is why the investigation.
Holder is being held in contempt not because of executive privilege, but because at this point, there is no executive privilege. There is only the claim. Only the president can claim executive privilege, and he hasn't.

Yes, he has. :roll:
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

How silly. The DOJ works for Obama. In this case they were speaking for the administration. This was the letter sent to Issa to formally announce the invocation of privilege. You should read it so you can have some clue what this whole hooha is really about.

Well, the letter wasn't included in that PDF. But from how they describe the letter in the PDF, it isn't what you say it is. It is a letter from the Atty General to the POTUS outlining why he thinkls the POTUS should claim EP. You have shown no letter from the POTUS to the congress asserting EP, or the legal reasoning behind it (required to claim EP).
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

Yes, he has. :roll:

Please read the post above (393)

Holder has no more right to claim EP than I do.
 
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Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

Yes, he has. :roll:
It boggles the mind, doesn't it?
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Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

It boggles the mind, doesn't it?
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Total denial of reality. Amazing.
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

Why do you think the documents are sensitive?

The documents detailing a sting on the cartel? Of course they're sensitive. Even the ones that don't seem obviously sensitive on first glance, you'd need to do an incredibly careful review of each one before you could de-classify it. For example, some agent submitted an expense report with 25 receipts. Maybe one of them is for a cup of coffee from a particular coffee shop in Mexico somewhere. Maybe it turns out that they were there to meet the girlfriend of some mid level cartel guy who is tipping them off and the cartel knows she was in that coffee shop at the same time on the same day and kills her. Or maybe some boring seeming document about vehicle requisitions, they go through and scrub the names of the agents from all the fields, but somebody scrawled a note in there somewhere about so and so was driving it and bam that person's 3 year old is kidnapped from their home a week later. And to even figure out which of those documents you can release, you'd need to do extensive digging. You'd need to talk to agents that are out in the field, clear each individual document by a ton of people...

And for what? Inevitably, most of the documents still couldn't be released to Issa and basically the public. So Issa would still be just as mad and the conspiracy theories would still be spinning just as fast. The DOJ already released tons and tons of documents, but Issa just keeps screaming regardless. This has nothing to do with reality. It's just Issa fanning the flames of teabagger conspiracy nuts, which does not require any reality to do. Even if they dedicated tons of resources to clearing and redacting as many documents as humanly possible without endangering lives, the headline on Fox the next morning would still be "Holder refuses to release rest of documents, heavily redacts, Issa threatening treason charges"...
 
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Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

The war against the cartel. What war? Who has declared war? Has this war been sanctioned by congress? The cartel is a bunch of thugs. And what do we do, we send then guns, we arm the cartel that's how much we are at war with the cartel. We are at war, yeah right, and while we're at war we send them guns. Now tell me again who we're at war with.

The facts are that our stupid government directed under Obama, gave guns to the cartel, and never followed one gun to see in who's hands they ended up in. Except they found one at the scene of one of our agents murdered. And you could care less who authorized this stupidity, you could care less if that person is fired, you could care less if Holder has lied to congress etc etc. In fact you want their stupidly to go unchallenged, as though nothing happened and no one got killed. That's right you have such blind faith in our government that you want to completely ignore stupidity, incompetence, and coverups for that stupidity and incompetence. Just let the dumb bastards do what they want.

Last, you talk about releasing sensitive documents, yet this administration releases (leaks) on every sensitive thing they do. Have you not heard

Doesn't seem like you were able to come up with a counter argument really...
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

Let's all not overlook the obvious here... if Holder released all 80,000 documents that Issa wants, then Issa would merely turn around and subpoena another 80,000. The game being played here is clear... even to those playing it.

It's the same of many 'debates' here at DP... a claim is made, a source is demanded, a source is provided, the source is dismissed on superficial grounds and another source is demanded. Ad nauseum.
 
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