• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/226]

Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

Isn't it funny how liberals celebrate Watergate at every turn, yet this is so vastly more serious than Watergate?


Because they're covering up how exactly?

What more could we know about this?


This is Issa showboating.

If you can't see this as political theater, then I feel sorry for you.
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

Because they're covering up how exactly?

What more could we know about this?


This is Issa showboating.

If you can't see this as political theater, then I feel sorry for you.

Show boating is Pelosis saying she could "arrest Rove at any time she wanted".... thats showboating and lying

this is not ... you can spin all you want for the fraud Kenyan Frank marshall Davis offspring.

Obama Knew About Gun Walking Program in 2009 – Used “Fast & Furious” To Make Case For Gun Regulations (Video)
Posted by Jim Hoft on Thursday, June 21, 2012, 4:55 AM
Barack Obama knew about the gun walking program in March 2009.
The Right Scoop reported:

In April 2009 Barack Obama traveled to Mexico and blamed US gun sellers for violence south of the border. Obama told his Mexican audience, “This war being waged with guns purchased not here but in the United States.” Just to be sure, a few months later the Obama Administration started running their own guns to Mexico, at least 2,000 guns.

Barack Obama, April 16, 2009:

“This war is being waged with guns purchased not here but in the United States… more than 90 percent of the guns recovered in Mexico come from the United States, many from gun shops that lay in our shared border. So we have responsibilities as well.”

There is also proof that the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives discussed using “Fast and Furious” to push for new regulations on gun sales.

Yesterday the Obama White House refused to turn over documents on the Fast and Furious gun walking program.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...rious-to-make-case-for-gun-regulations-video/
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

Obama told issa to kiss his ass
who would have then expected the faux outrage from the reich wing as a result [/s]
 
Last edited:
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

Isn't it funny how liberals celebrate Watergate at every turn, yet this is so vastly more serious than Watergate?
Most liberals don't even know what Watergate was about. They think it was some grand national-security threat or organized crime spree.

By what measure? Watergate was about the White House ordering/sanctioning a felony (an break-in and wire taps) waged against a political opponent for the purpose of manipulating the outcome of an election. The major item here was a conspiracy to commit a felony followed by a conspiracy to cover-up, which included money being paid as consideration for the cover-up. The actions were planned and carried out with the White House knowledge and it became increasingly apparent that the President was involved in the cover-up of the crime. This is corruption at the highest levels of government.

This other thing is silly nonsense. Yes, someone was killed, maybe by a gun that was part of the sting, but his death was in no way related to the ATF actions.... and the rest of this is political theatre of the highest order. It is a head fake from scrutiny that the ReCons have zero idea how to fix the economy.

If you think this is vastly more serious that Watergate, me thinks your moral compass needs realignment.
 
Last edited:
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

Seriously, you have to ask why the DOJ would not just hand over a ton of sensitive documents about the war against the cartel to a bunch of right wing political hacks? Do you have any idea what the cartel would do to get its hands on that kind of information? They would kill, kidnap, break in to federal buildings, whatever they need to do. In order to get access to that kind of information within the DOJ you get vetted and trained for years first and your name is never publicly released. They have extensive procedures to make sure everything is encrypted and transfers of the information are super secure, etc. You think they should just hand it over to some Republicans and their unpaid interns and whatnot? That would be insane. Hell, odds are that the Republicans would opt to just release whatever made Obama look bad to the press. They don't give a sh1t.

Why do you think the documents are sensitive?
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

You know it is a lie? How do you know that?

We do know that two of the weapons found at the shooting site were from F 'n' F. Where is the weapon which killed the US border guard and who fired the shot?


There were two weapons found at the murder scene of Agent Terry. According to the FBI report they could not determine absolutely "which" firearm fired the bullet that killed him because the bullet had fragmented on impact; they could only determine a partial match.

The report did not refer to "what" firearm killed him, but rather "which" firearm. The two firearms found at the murder scene were the firearms that were forensically tested to determine if either was used to shoot Agent Terry.

Therefore the FBI report distinctly refers to the firearm that killed Agent Terry as being at the murder scene. They just couldn't determine absolutely "which one."

FBI report at odds with ATF claim on weapons
A copy of the FBI document shows ballistics tests did not rule out the Fast and Furious guns in the death of Border Patrol Agent Brian A. Terry.
July 27, 2011|By Richard A. Serrano, Washington Bureau


Reporting from Washington — The claim by senior ATF officials that none of the weapons lost in the botched Fast and Furious sting operation were used in the shooting of a Border Patrol agent is not supported by FBI ballistics tests, according to a copy of the FBI report on the shooting.
Ads by Google

Last week, spokesmen Scot Thomasson and Drew Wade of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives told The Times that the FBI had assured them that neither of the two Fast and Furious weapons found at the scene of Border Patrol Agent Brian A. Terry's death were the ones that killed the agent.

"We're not aware of any forensic evidence that would link these guns to the homicide," they said.

A copy of the FBI report obtained by The Times' Washington bureau shows ballistics tests did not rule out the Fast and Furious guns.

Experts went to work on tests on Dec. 17, three days after Terry was killed, FBI records show. On Dec. 23, the FBI's "Report of Examination" said the fatal bullet came from a semiautomatic rifle, but that "due to a lack of sufficient agreement in the individual microscopic marks of value" on the weapons, "it could not be determined" which gun fired it.

Additionally, the article also reports how the ATF misrepresents the FBI report. More creative denial, just like some here at DP perpetuate.
 
Last edited:
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

By what measure? Watergate was about the White House ordering/sanctioning a felony (an break-in and wire taps) waged against a political opponent for the purpose of manipulating the outcome of an election. The major item here was a conspiracy to commit a felony followed by a conspiracy to cover-up, which included money being paid as consideration for the cover-up. The actions were planned and carried out with the White House knowledge and it became increasingly apparent that the President was involved in the cover-up of the crime. This is corruption at the highest levels of government.

This other thing is silly nonsense. Yes, someone was killed, maybe by a gun that was part of the sting, but his death was in no way related to the ATF actions.... and the rest of this is political theatre of the highest order. It is a head fake from scrutiny that the ReCons have zero idea how to fix the economy.

If you think this is vastly more serious that Watergate, me thinks your moral compass needs realignment.

The White House did not order a B & E. There is some question as to whether Nixon ordered it. The downfall of Nixon lay in the coverup and the lying about the issue. Nixon destroyed documents, most notably 26 or so minutes of a recording, and refused to give documents to Congress. Do you see a pattern here?

Several high level officials went to jail over Watergate, Nixon lost his job. Hopefully, the pattern will continue.

As for your assertion that a petty breakin in an office building compares to a botched program where 200 people were killed. I would have to disagree.
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

By what measure? Watergate was about the White House ordering/sanctioning a felony (an break-in and wire taps) waged against a political opponent for the purpose of manipulating the outcome of an election. .

Kind of like not requiring voter ID or amnesty for illegals? That kind of election rigging?

Watergate was one side trying to get intel on the other side, which is happening right now by both Obama's and Romney's campaign at this very moment. Nixon was paranoid, and stepped way over a line and got busted for it, but it wasn't out of the ordinary before or since. Hypocrisy at its finest.
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

You know it is a lie? How do you know that? [...]
1. By reading (reliable sources).
2. By thinking (rationally).
 
Last edited:
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

Μολὼν λαβέ;1060612862 said:
There were two weapons found at the murder scene of Agent Terry. According to the FBI report they could not determine absolutely "which" firearm fired the bullet that killed him because the bullet had fragmented on impact; they could only determine a partial match.

The report did not refer to "what" firearm killed him, but rather "which" firearm. The two firearms found at the murder scene were the firearms that were forensically tested to determine if either was used to shoot Agent Terry.

Therefore the FBI report distinctly refers to the firearm that killed Agent Terry as being at the murder scene. They just couldn't determine absolutely "which one."
A classic example of why semantics and logic don't mix :lamo
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

1. By reading (reliable sources).
2. By thinking (rationally).

OHHHHHHHHH.... and what reliable sources? please share... and "thinking'... really? I think we all do that..
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

The White House did not order a B & E. There is some question as to whether Nixon ordered it. The downfall of Nixon lay in the coverup and the lying about the issue. Nixon destroyed documents, most notably 26 or so minutes of a recording, and refused to give documents to Congress. Do you see a pattern here?

Several high level officials went to jail over Watergate, Nixon lost his job. Hopefully, the pattern will continue.

As for your assertion that a petty breakin in an office building compares to a botched program where 200 people were killed. I would have to disagree.

Primarily, Watergate was a cover up by the president of serious crimes aimed at subverting the democratic process.

In contrast, this is a case where documents have been declared priveleged to protect ongoing criminal investigations and probably the identities of undercover agents and confidential informants. The purpose of the underlying operation was to stem the flow of illegal, black market guns from the US to Mexican drug cartels.

Very similar. :roll:
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

Here is the basic understanding on claiming Executive Privilege. Unless the Administration can prove these 3 points concerning DOJ documents themselves, there isn't much hope that it will stand.

Note: While the document is long in coming to its conclusion, its actually a very good read.

http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/104284.pdf

1. The protected communication must relate to a “quintessential and nondelegable
presidential power.” Espy and Judicial Watch involved the
appointment and removal and the pardon powers, respectively. Other core,
direct precedential decisionmaking powers include the Commander-in-
Chief power, the sole authority to receive ambassadors and other public
ministers, and the power to negotiate treaties. It would arguably not
include decisionmaking with respect to laws that vest policymaking and
administrative implementation authority in the heads of department and
agencies or which allow presidential delegations of authority.

2. The communication must be authored or “solicited and received” by a
close White House advisor (or the President). The judicial test is that an
advisor must be in “operational proximity” with the President. This
effectively means that the scope of the presidential communications
privilege extends only to the administrative boundaries of the Executive
Office of the President and the White House.

3. The presidential communications privilege remains a qualified privilege
that may be overcome by a showing that the information sought “likely
contains important evidence” and the unavailability of the information
elsewhere by an appropriate investigating authority. The Espy court found
an adequate showing of need by the Independent Counsel; while in
Judicial Watch, the court found the privilege did not apply, and the
deliberative process privilege was unavailing.
 
Last edited:
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

OHHHHHHHHH.... and what reliable sources? please share...
The L.A. Times, the Washington Post, and Politifact Texas all cite officials and/or official reports that the bullet was too badly damaged to be matched to a particular rifle. Not to mention the FBI ballistics report itself (which blows Molon Labe's sematic argument out of the water, BTW). This is essentially beyond dispute, and has already been pointed out at least once in this thread.

and "thinking'... really? I think we all do that..
I think you're wrong. When you include the parenthetical that I provided in the original, a preponderance of the evidence indicates that you're wrong.
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

The L.A. Times, the Washington Post, and Politifact Texas all cite officials and/or official reports that the bullet was too badly damaged to be matched to a particular rifle. Not to mention the FBI ballistics report itself (which blows Molon Labe's sematic argument out of the water, BTW). This is essentially beyond dispute, and has already been pointed out at least once in this thread.

I believe you are right. The bullet was too badly damaged to be positively identified. But two weapons found at the crime scene were positively identified as coming from the F&F
guns. Does it really matter which gun fired the killing bullet?
 
Last edited:
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

Primarily, Watergate was a cover up by the president of serious crimes aimed at subverting the democratic process.

In contrast, this is a case where documents have been declared priveleged to protect ongoing criminal investigations and probably the identities of undercover agents and confidential informants. The purpose of the underlying operation was to stem the flow of illegal, black market guns from the US to Mexican drug cartels.

Very similar. :roll:

Nice try, Mr. I Love Obama, but even the president's own press secretary did not even try that angle. The angle being used is that these documents are INTERNAL executive branch communications basically about what not to disclose. LOL

Link: Watch: Fox News Reporter Ed Henry Challenges Jay Carney on Executive Privilege During WH Press Briefing | Fox News Insider
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

Primarily, Watergate was a cover up by the president of serious crimes aimed at subverting the democratic process.

In contrast, this is a case where documents have been declared priveleged to protect ongoing criminal investigations and probably the identities of undercover agents and confidential informants. The purpose of the underlying operation was to stem the flow of illegal, black market guns from the US to Mexican drug cartels.

Very similar. :roll:


Man... how do you do it?...

they are similar.. as F and F is about POLICY here on gun control to GET VOTES ..and people are dying.. like an American Border Patrol officer...

it had NOTHING to do with Guns in Mexico.. as Obama dont give a F about about that.. he is about CONTROLING and social re-engineering and us civilains losing our liberty.. its all about goverment,.

but they are not similar in this is FAR WORSE... and this marxist moron Kenyan Frank Marshall Hussein Obama said "he didnt know about it" so dont lie to us and say he was "trying to stem the tide of guns" when he said he had no idea of F and F...,so which line of BS you gonna try to jive us with now in your Pelosi bag of BS...

Priceless..you sound like Obama, you paint yourself into a corner or BS just like Obama... now which is it? he knew or didnt know?...
 
Last edited:
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

I believe you are right. The bullet was too badly damaged to be positively identified. But two weapons found at the crime scene were positively identified as coming from the F&F guns. Does it really matter which gun fired the killing bullet?
Not to me. But it must matter greatly to the right, since they keep insisting on repeating a known falsehood, which then makes their entire agenda on the matter suspect.

They claim to want the truth, but then they lie to get it.
 
Last edited:
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

The L.A. Times, the Washington Post, and Politifact Texas all cite officials and/or official reports that the bullet was too badly damaged to be matched to a particular rifle. Not to mention the FBI ballistics report itself (which blows Molon Labe's sematic argument out of the water, BTW). This is essentially beyond dispute, and has already been pointed out at least once in this thread.



I think you're wrong. When you include the parenthetical that I provided in the original, a preponderance of the evidence indicates that you're wrong.


hahahaaaaa.. you said reliable source ( which you proved you have no idea what one is).. not yellow journalism out of liberal rags that are Obama cheerleading squads...

thanks .. I need the laugh...
 
Last edited:
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

[...] and "thinking'... really? I think we all do that..
hahahaaaaa.. you said reliable source ( which you proved you have no idea what one is).. not yellow journalism out of liberal rags that are Obama cheerleading squads...

thanks .. I need the laugh...
Case closed.
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

Case closed.


Libs.. they got nothing...if any of that was truly true.. Holder would be waving that in Issas face.. but its not true..

us Conservatives call that deduction "thinking".... you may want to check it out
 
Last edited:
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

Nancy Pelosi said:
“They’re going after Eric Holder because he is supporting measures to overturn these voter suppression initiatives in the states… This is no accident, it is no coincidence. It is a plan on the part of Republicans.”

Pelosi denied that Operation Fast and Furious is the real cause of the investigation and contempt charge. “These very same people who are holding him in contempt are part of a nationwide scheme to suppress the vote,” she said of her congressional colleagues. “It is connected. It’s clear as can be. It’s not only to monopolize his time, it’s to undermine his name.”

“These folks want a plutocracy where instead of the choice of the many the checks of the very very few determine the outcomes of elections,” she said.

Wow. She's apparently so far gone that she belongs in the CT threads now.
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

Wow. She's apparently so far gone that she belongs in the CT threads now.


Pelosi is so stupid its mind blowing.. shes the most vile human ever..

she forgot to mention Holder pardoning the Black Panthers who had open voter suppresion in Philly

Pelosi and Biden mus tbe sharing botox needles and injecting " high dose stupid" directly into their vacant skulls
 
Last edited:
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

'Ya know, Bush invoked executive privilege, and it was wrong, but that doesn't mean that people should turn their heads when Obama does it. Bush was a terrible president, but he is no longer the president. Obama is, and he is doing the same terrible presidential type stuff Bush did. Why are Democrats supporting this? Ahh, I think it's because Obama has a D after his name instead of an R.
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

Wow. She's apparently so far gone that she belongs in the CT threads now.
Let's go ahead and throw Pelosi in to the obstruction mix then, since she decided it's her place to try to grandstand during a criminal investigation.
 
Back
Top Bottom