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Thread: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/226]

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    No, again, the Chief Executive was not subpoenaed. Were records from the White House or the POTUS subpoenaed? No. This is an investigative matter. The Atty General is who they're talking to because this is his job - not the president's. The president may direct the Atty General, even fire him, but he can't take his place and do his job.
    but the AG DOES work at the direction of the POTUS
    where where all you folks hiding during civics class?
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post






    Lives on the line stopping the flow by allowing guns to ‘walk’??? It seems to me the ‘whoever’ in charge is foolishly putting other’s lives on the line. I could care less who the president is. When Bush did it it was wrong. When Obama did it it was wrong. The law is not partisan. Further, the excuse advanced that FnF was a ploy to promote gun control is just stupid. As has been stated repeatedly ‘Gunrunner’ began under Bush who was/is a staunch second amendment supporter. This undermines the ‘gun control’ premise on face.
    The difference between Bush's Wide Receiver and Fast and Furious is that Wide Receiver was done in conjunction with the Mexican government. GPS devices were placed on each weapon and Mexican agents followed them as they crossed into Mexico. It was an attempt to find the drug cartels. The Mexican government was never notified of Fast and Furious. There was no attempt to follow the weapons. The operation was run by Dennis Burke the US Attorney for the District of Arizona and a political appointee of the Obama administration.
    Burke was a lawyer for the democrats on the Senate Judiciary Committee in 1994 when the assault weapons ban was enacted. When Burke was nominated for his position he stated that Obama and Holder had already let it be known what they wanted done. Holder was on record that he wanted to reinstitute the ban on the sale of assault weapons. Because of Burke's prior involvement with the previous assault weapons ban and the fact that no attempt was ever made to follow the weapons and the Mexican government's cooperation or permission were never sought, some people became suspicious about the real purpose of the operation.
    Several weeks before Agent Terry was murdered Burke sent the following email:
    Burke responded, “Would love to chat. We are about to indict around [REDACTED] clowns for a Gun Trafficking to Mexico operation. It's a T-III investigation that we have been working w/ATF for a long time and IRS is all over some money laundering charges. It’s going to bring a lot of attention to straw purchasing of assault weapons. Some of the weapons bought by these clowns in Arizona have been directly traced to murders of elected officials in Mexico by the Cartels, so Katie-bar-the-door when we unveil this baby4
    Burke resigned in September 2011 when the heat got too intense.
    http://cnsnews.com/news/article/obam...rious?tw_p=twt
    Last edited by jerry7; 06-30-12 at 01:26 AM.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by jerry7 View Post
    The difference between Bush's Wide Receiver and Fast and Furious is that Wide Receiver was done in conjunction with the Mexican government.
    Stop right there because it's bull****. The operation was not created with the cooperation of the Mexican government and it was started without their knowledge.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Stop right there because it's bull****. The operation was not created with the cooperation of the Mexican government and it was started without their knowledge.
    Sorry, but you are incorrect on that....

    Dubbed "Operation Wide Receiver," the Bush-era operation was run out of Tucson between 2006 and 2007, ending before Bush left office and before Fast and Furious began under Obama in 2009. The differences between it and Fast and Furious are vast, starting with the fact that Wide Receiver produced no dead bodies.

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    Operation Wide Receiver used the common law enforcement tactic of "controlled delivery" in which the illegal sales of weapons were allowed to take place, the movements of the weapons were closely monitored and the end purchasers were then apprehended. It involved gun-tracing, not gun-walking.

    Under the "controlled delivery" of Wide Receiver, agents didn't just write down the serial numbers and let the guns disappear as in Fast and Furious. They closely and physically followed the guns from American dealers to straw purchasers to Mexican buyers.

    Most importantly, Wide Receiver was run in close cooperation with Mexican authorities, who were kept in the dark on Fast and Furious.

    In contrast ATF agents involved in Fast and Furious have testified that they were ordered not to track the weapons and in cases where interdiction was possible they were ordered to stand down and actually watch the weapons walk.

    White House Falsely Blames Bush-Era Wide Receiver For Fast And Furious - Investors.com

    Like it or not, this was a total Obama screw up from beginning to end. And all for the misguided end of duping America into believing their propaganda of American guns flooding to Mexico, so that this administration could attack the 2nd amendment.
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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Issa has a mole in the Justice Dept. Issa already has the documents, but they can't be used because they were disclosed improperly by the mole. But the specificity of the documents shows that AG Holder lied about the number of warrants, the contents of the warrants, and the intended purpose of the warrants. If Obama is reelected and the Democrats don't retake the House this matter will drag on like Iran-Contra.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    Issa has a mole in the Justice Dept. Issa already has the documents, but they can't be used because they were disclosed improperly by the mole. But the specificity of the documents shows that AG Holder lied about the number of warrants, the contents of the warrants, and the intended purpose of the warrants. If Obama is reelected and the Democrats don't retake the House this matter will drag on like Iran-Contra.
    And your proof of this charge is found where exactly?
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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    And your proof of this charge is found where exactly?
    Where else...Issa.

    Mole helps Rep. Issa whack Justice Dept. - TheHill.com
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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by treedancer View Post

    Yep, keep laughing...This could be liberals worst nightmare.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Yep, keep laughing...This could be liberals worst nightmare.
    It could be but it wont.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Sorry, but you are incorrect on that....
    Sorry, but YOU are incorrect on that.

    Among these misconceptions being repeated: that no Wide Receiver guns “walked” to Mexico because they were all controlled deliveries; that no one was killed; that the Mexican government was fully informed; that RFID tracking devices were placed in all the guns; and that the program was shut down at the first sign of danger.

    Gun dealer and writer Mike Detty was a central figure in Wide Receiver, who, in his capacity as confidential informant for ATF, sold 450 rifles and handguns to suspected traffickers. As Paul Barrett reported in Bloomberg Businessweek, “The vast majority of the guns were never recovered by U.S. authorities.” This means control was not maintained on all deliveries, and it is impossible to tell if any people have been killed, and if so, how many. Still, it's crucial to note Detty was told that surveillance would be maintained, and he took great personal risk to assist law enforcement.

    ...

    As for the Mexican government being informed, the Businessweek article refers to “fleeting contacts with Mexican police,” and Gun Rights Examiner reported on a Tucson operation “launched out of ATF’s Phoenix field division” in 2007 in which Mexican police said they never saw a car agents on the U.S. side had tracked crossing the border. That said, it appears to have been a different case than Wide Receiver, so this correspondent again queried Detty.

    “All I can tell you is what the first prosecutor on OWR told me,” he answered. “A couple years after the case ended we met a gun show. He and his son purchased rifles from me and I handed him a business card.”

    “When I mentioned Wide Receiver he knew who I was immediately and we talked over an hour,” Detty recalled. “‘I can't believe those f-ing ATF guys had you selling guns from your house-you're lucky to be alive,’ the prosecutor said. When I asked why OWR was never prosecuted he told me, ‘ATF lied to me about the Mexican's cooperation. I don't mean the field agents you worked with, I mean at a higher level. Once I found out that the case was based on a lie I declined it. Why would I go into court with a case where I have to sacrifice my personal integrity and credibility because ATF lied.’"

    Truth about Operation Wide Receiver important to determine - National gun rights | Examiner.com
    http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...-11172011.html

    A report issued on January 30 by the Minority Staff of the House Oversight Committee, indicates that ATF hoped to coordinate with Mexican law enforcement during Wide Receiver, but the idea was never executed in practice.


    The evidence also indicates that, between March 2006 and mid-2007, ATF agents had contemporaneous knowledge of planned sales of firearms to known straw purchasers and repeatedly designed surveillance operations of these illegal firearms purchases without effectuating arrests. According to documents obtained by the Committee, agents avoided interdicting weapons despite having the legal authority to do so in order to build a bigger case. Despite repeated failed attempts to coordinate surveillance with Mexican law enforcement, the ATF agents continued to attempt these operations.


    Talking Points Memo has also noted that claims about coordination with Mexican law enforcement during Wide Receiver are false.


    One of the distinctions that Republicans have drawn between Operation Fast and Furious, the flawed investigation that allowed weapons to "walk" into Mexico during the Obama administration, and Operation Wide Receiver, which did the same during the Bush administration, is that authorities who took part in the earlier investigation were coordinating their efforts with Mexican authorities.

    "The difference in the previous administration is there was coordination with the Mexican government," Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA) said at a hearing in December. "They made a real effort under Wide Receiver to pass off a small amount of weapons and track them."

    But new documents DOJ disclosed to congressional investigators on Thursday appear to indicate that ATF officials didn't even consider looping Mexican authorities in on their operation until several months after the investigation began and ATF had already lost track of weapons that likely ended up in Mexico.

    The selection of emails indicate that officials discussed the possibility of working with Mexican officials but only talk about it only in theory.

    http://mediamatters.org/blog/201206150011
    Last edited by AdamT; 07-01-12 at 11:56 PM.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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