Page 69 of 72 FirstFirst ... 19596768697071 ... LastLast
Results 681 to 690 of 714

Thread: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/226]

  1. #681
    Sage

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Last Seen
    07-25-17 @ 12:35 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    5,878

    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post


    Except the ATF agent in charge says that he never authorized that.



    Again, ATF denies that they ever authorized that tactic.



    And still, that was not their intent.

    What I think is criminal is pillorying the men and women who are busting their butts and putting their lives on the line to try to stop the illegal flow of guns which is estimated to be 2000 guns A DAY — and all in a political game to trip up President Obama.
    Did you read the article?

  2. #682
    Sage

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Last Seen
    07-25-17 @ 12:35 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    5,878

    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Let me give your tactic a try:

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Except the ATF agent in charge says that he never authorized that.


    Yes they did

    Again, ATF denies that they ever authorized that tactic.
    Yes they did

    And still, that was not their intent.
    Yes it was

    What I think is criminal is pillorying the men and women who are busting their butts and putting their lives on the line to try to stop the illegal flow of guns which is estimated to be 2000 guns A DAY — and all in a political game to trip up President Obama.
    Lives on the line stopping the flow by allowing guns to ‘walk’??? It seems to me the ‘whoever’ in charge is foolishly putting other’s lives on the line. I could care less who the president is. When Bush did it it was wrong. When Obama did it it was wrong. The law is not partisan. Further, the excuse advanced that FnF was a ploy to promote gun control is just stupid. As has been stated repeatedly ‘Gunrunner’ began under Bush who was/is a staunch second amendment supporter. This undermines the ‘gun control’ premise on face.

  3. #683
    Sage
    AdamT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-13 @ 04:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    17,773

    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    Did you read the article?
    The link wasn't working earlier.

    Here's the most interesting part:

    The wiretap applications are under court seal, and releasing such information to the public would ordinarily be illegal. But Issa appears to be protected by the Speech or Debate Clause in the Constitution, which offers immunity for Congressional speech, especially on a chamber’s floor.
    So you want to keep trying to argue that there would be no risk of disclosure if Holder released to Issa 80,000 pages of documents including sensitive information about ongoing investigations? You want to keep claiming that Holder has no good reason? Because it appears that none other than the chairman of the committee has already published confidential, sealed documents, for which he could be prosecuted BUT FOR CONGRESSIONAL IMMUNITY!! Jebus Christ.

    As for the rest of the article, it says nothing that hasn't already been addressed. Yes they knew that alleged straw purchasers were buying ****loads of guns, and yes they suspected that they were being purchased for illegal export to Mexico, and YES, there is nothing illegal about someone buying a ****load of guns in Arizona and NO, simply suspecting that they may be transported to Mexico does not provide probable cause for an arrest or legal cover to seize the weapons.
    Last edited by AdamT; 06-29-12 at 04:47 PM.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

  4. #684
    Sage

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Last Seen
    07-25-17 @ 12:35 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    5,878

    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    The link wasn't working earlier.
    So to answer MY question, you hadn’t…but it wasn’t your fault. Thank you for your honesty.

    Here's the most interesting part:
    Yeah, I thought that to be quite ‘fishy’. But what was entered into the record was a letter from Issa to Cummings that included ‘quotes from and describes in detail a secret wiretap application’ and not the specific document…without reading it one questions how revealing/illegal it actually is. IMO they also need to subpoena Bush’s people to ascertain their complicity in this whole scheme.

    So you want to keep trying to argue that there would be no risk of disclosure if Holder released to Issa 80,000 pages of documents including sensitive information about ongoing investigations? You want to keep claiming that Holder has no good reason?
    I not have argued that nor claimed Holder has no good reason. Are you arguing that out of the 80k (I’ve heard 142k but whatever) only ~7,800 are ‘non-sensitive’, especially since the majority of those released so far have been heavily redacted? If he gave only 1 more and cleared up the issue I would be happy, but if he released 50k more and no resolution was found I would still want more.

    As for the rest of the article, it says nothing that hasn't already been addressed.
    I didn’t already know ‘wiretap applications were signed by senior DOJ officials in the department’s criminal division’ or that ‘tactic, which was intended to allow agents to track criminal networks by finding the guns at crime scenes’. It has been claimed that the operation was handled by local ATF and DOJ was ‘outside the loop’ but this appears to contradict this. As to waiting for crimes to be committed whereby enabling them to find guns, I hadn’t heard this either but surely sound stupid if not illegal.

  5. #685
    Sage
    clownboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Oregon
    Last Seen
    08-17-16 @ 10:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    26,087

    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    So you think that Obama should roll over and give up whatever Congress requests, regardless of whether the request is reasonable? You don't think that would be an abrogation of his responsibility to maintain the independence of the executive branch?
    No, I think Atty General Holder should. The docs were not requested from the White House or the POTUS. Not up to them to decide what is "reasonable" to the investigators.

  6. #686
    long standing member
    justabubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:32 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    36,173

    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    No, I think Atty General Holder should. The docs were not requested from the White House or the POTUS. Not up to them to decide what is "reasonable" to the investigators.
    sure it is something the executive must address recognizing DOJ is an executive agency/department
    see this: Federal Executive Branch | USA.gov
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  7. #687
    Sage
    AdamT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-13 @ 04:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    17,773

    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    Yeah, I thought that to be quite ‘fishy’. But what was entered into the record was a letter from Issa to Cummings that included ‘quotes from and describes in detail a secret wiretap application’ and not the specific document…without reading it one questions how revealing/illegal it actually is. IMO they also need to subpoena Bush’s people to ascertain their complicity in this whole scheme.
    It's hard to tell from the article what was included.

    I not have argued that nor claimed Holder has no good reason. Are you arguing that out of the 80k (I’ve heard 142k but whatever) only ~7,800 are ‘non-sensitive’, especially since the majority of those released so far have been heavily redacted? If he gave only 1 more and cleared up the issue I would be happy, but if he released 50k more and no resolution was found I would still want more.
    I would guess that documents turned over are the ones that DOJ determined to be both non-sensitive AND relevant to the investigation.

    I didn’t already know ‘wiretap applications were signed by senior DOJ officials in the department’s criminal division’ or that ‘tactic, which was intended to allow agents to track criminal networks by finding the guns at crime scenes’. It has been claimed that the operation was handled by local ATF and DOJ was ‘outside the loop’ but this appears to contradict this. As to waiting for crimes to be committed whereby enabling them to find guns, I hadn’t heard this either but surely sound stupid if not illegal.
    My reading of the article is that the section in bold above was editorial comment by the author — not something spelled out in the wiretap request. That, of course, is Issa's theory and the right wing conspiracy theory that's driving this kangaroo court: that the Obama administration wanted US guns to be found at crime scenes so they could use it as an excuse to enact stricter gun laws. Why this would be necessary is beyond me, given that Mexican authorities have already confiscated tens of thousands of US guns from crime scenes....
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

  8. #688
    Sage
    clownboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Oregon
    Last Seen
    08-17-16 @ 10:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    26,087

    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    sure it is something the executive must address recognizing DOJ is an executive agency/department
    see this: Federal Executive Branch | USA.gov
    No, again, the Chief Executive was not subpoenaed. Were records from the White House or the POTUS subpoenaed? No. This is an investigative matter. The Atty General is who they're talking to because this is his job - not the president's. The president may direct the Atty General, even fire him, but he can't take his place and do his job.

  9. #689
    Sage
    AdamT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-13 @ 04:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    17,773

    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    No, again, the Chief Executive was not subpoenaed. Were records from the White House or the POTUS subpoenaed? No. This is an investigative matter. The Atty General is who they're talking to because this is his job - not the president's. The president may direct the Atty General, even fire him, but he can't take his place and do his job.
    It's still covered under the deliberative process arm of executive privelege.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

  10. #690
    Pragmatic Idealist
    upsideguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Rocky Mtn. High
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:01 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    10,145

    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by bicycleman View Post
    Just think if Bush was the President and exerted this type of executive privilege to cover up a crime. I can just see what CNN and MSNBC would be saying. CNN is busy sugar coating Obama's latest executive action as we speak.
    which he did and they did.....

Page 69 of 72 FirstFirst ... 19596768697071 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •