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Thread: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/226]

  1. #671
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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    If Obomber should be impeached, it should be over Syria - America is causing the atrocities

    "Back in Nov 2011, historian and investigative journalist Webster Tarpley went on a fact finding week long visit to Syria ..."

    "He says he talked to average everyday Syrians of all ethnic groups, Christian, Alawite, Sunni, ****e, Druze and across the board say they are been shot at by snipers and that in Hims in particular (where all the inital Western media reports were focused on) the people complain that there are terrorists snipers that shoot at civilians -men, women and children, random killings, simply for the purpose of destablizing the country. He said I would not call it a civil war (as of Nov 2011) and what you are dealing with are death squads, terror commandos, the kind of thing that people remember from Argentina and Central America. This is a typical CIA method. [The CIA field operations handbook describes how to launch a terrorist campaign of killings, kidnappings and torture combined with propaganda to destablize a country. People should recall that the CIA launched the 'Phoenix' operation of assassinations during the Vietnam War where approximately 200,000 people were killed in these special operations. Indeed this same type of assassinations are ongoing in Afghanistan in the so called 'Night Time Raids'. Iraq also has US dead squads too and these will increase as they withdraw the troops further. These people are good at killing and are good at training people to do it."]

    What Has Been Happening In Syria? - Indymedia Ireland

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    (1) First and foremost, operation Wide Receiver did not result in the death of a U.S. Border Patrol agent or an Immigrations and Customs Enforcement (ICE) officer. Fast and Furious did.
    And the propaganda train kept a rollin', all night long . . . . .




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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Of course, if the president insists protecting the separation of power doctrine it means he must be guilty of something -- like protecting our constitutional framework from legislative branch overreaching.
    Yes, it certainly suggests he's guilty of something (or someone whom he's protecting is). Considering this is the president who promises unrivaled transparency from his administration, and the folks he's keeping the docs from are an OVERSIGHT committee (something you conveniently keep forgetting).

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Second source, or 8th if you've been following along.

    Our Preznit the War Criminal -

    On April 18, 2010, the front page of The Washington Post reported:

    “U.S. Provides Secret Backing to Syrian Opposition. Leaked Cables Reveal Funding. “The State Department has secretly financed Syrian political opposition groups and related projects, including a satellite TV channel that beams anti-government programming into the country…Barada TV is closely affiliated with the Movement for Justice and Development, a London-based network of Syrian exiles. Classified US diplomatic cables show that the State Department has funneled as much as $6 million to the group to operate the satellite channel and finance other activities inside Syria…The leaders of Movement for Justice and Development are former members of the Muslim Brotherhood…. Several US diplomatic cables from the embassy in Damascus reveal that the Syrian exiles received money from a State Department program called the ‘Middle East Partnership Initiative.’ According to the cables, the State Department funneled money to the exile group via the Democracy Council, a Los Angeles based non-profit. According to its website, the council sponsors projects in the Middle East, Asia and Latin America to promote the ‘fundamental elements of stable societies.’ The council’s founder and president, James Prince is a former Congressional staff member and investment adviser for Price Waterhouse Cooper…Edgar Vasquez, a State Department spokesman said the Middle East Partnership Initiative has allocated 7.5 million for Syrian programs since 2005. A cable from the embassy in Damascus , however, pegged a much higher total – about $12 million between 2005 and 2010.”

    Manipulation of the UN Security Council in support of the US-NATO Military Agenda

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Here is part of a new article by Fortune magazine who investigated the whole incident. It makes it clear that no guns were intentionally allowed to "walk", they were legally purchased and there was nothing they could do about it, though they tried to get indictments. The House "investigation" is nothing but a partisan sham.


    The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal - Fortune Features
    The Washington Post has a story that highlights dysfunction at the ATF office in question and differences in opinion among participants as to the nature of the operation.

    IMO, rather than focusing on the politics of the case, I believe the Congress should focus on the problem-solving aspect:

    1. Request the ATF to provide specific controls were it to carry out similar operations in the future to significantly reduce the risk of a recurrence; appoint a panel of experts to review the controls for adequacy and make recommendations to address any deficiencies; bar the ATF from carrying out similar operations until the controls have been deemed adequate with enforcement via the appropriations process. One can't eliminate risk, but one probably can reduce it significantly. The description of differing perceptions about the nature of the operation (a matter of mission) contained in the newspaper article suggests that there is wide latitude for improvement given how fundamental that matter is. The description of turf battles so to speak within the office also suggests that large scope for negligence or error existed.

    2. Look into what apparently seems to have been dysfunctional workplace culture/environment. If such dysfunctionality suggested in The Washington Post's article is found, demote the individuals responsible or, in the worst cases, outright fire them. If such a problem remains pervasive, restructure the office in question, even if it means replacing most or all of the senior personnel there.

    3. Look into the matter of prosector conduct vis-a-vis the cases in question. If the prosecutors' caution was reasonable in that more evidence was necessary before arrests were made, then that should be the end of that angle. If, however, their unwillingness to seek indictments was unreasonable e.g., evidence for obtaining an indictment was more than sufficient, then appropriate measures to deal with that problem should be undertaken.

    All of the above should depend on objective and concrete evidence. In the meantime, Congress should refrain from political stunts such as holding the Attorney General in contempt.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by bicycleman View Post
    Just think if Bush was the President and exerted this type of executive privilege to cover up a crime. I can just see what CNN and MSNBC would be saying. CNN is busy sugar coating Obama's latest executive action as we speak.
    No... Bush would've never done such a thing...


    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Yes, it certainly suggests he's guilty of something (or someone whom he's protecting is). Considering this is the president who promises unrivaled transparency from his administration, and the folks he's keeping the docs from are an OVERSIGHT committee (something you conveniently keep forgetting).
    So you think that Obama should roll over and give up whatever Congress requests, regardless of whether the request is reasonable? You don't think that would be an abrogation of his responsibility to maintain the independence of the executive branch?
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    3. Look into the matter of prosector conduct vis-a-vis the cases in question. If the prosecutors' caution was reasonable in that more evidence was necessary before arrests were made, then that should be the end of that angle. If, however, their unwillingness to seek indictments was unreasonable e.g., evidence for obtaining an indictment was more than sufficient, then appropriate measures to deal with that problem should be undertaken.
    As to this point, Eban’s article states ‘Terry Goddard, Arizona's Attorney General from 2003 to 2011, says of federal prosecutors, "They demanded that every i be dotted, every t be crossed, and after a while, it got to be nonsensical."

    She was on Rachel Maddow tonight and discussed this prosecutor issue further but stated the she could learn very little about the shortcomings. She seemed to imply some covert coverup with respect to them and their actions. It COULD be that Holder or an associate had directed the prosecutors to be ‘less cooperative’ and may be documented. This MAY be what they are resisting…but I am merely speculating.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Interesting:

    In Fast and Furious, agents for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives allowed assault guns bought by “straw purchasers” to “walk,” which meant ending surveillance on weapons suspected to be en route to Mexican drug cartels.

    The tactic, which was intended to allow agents to track criminal networks by finding the guns at crime scenes, was condemned after two guns that were part of the operation were found at U.S. Border Patrol agent Brian Terry’s murder scene.


    Darrell Issa Puts Details of Secret Wiretap Applications in Congressional Record : Roll Call News

    I think allowing guns to walk which would enable them to be tracked t criminal networks AFTER they have been used in a crime...is criminal. I wonder if the judge that approved the operation knew this detail.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    Interesting:

    In Fast and Furious, agents for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives allowed assault guns bought by “straw purchasers” to “walk,” which meant ending surveillance on weapons suspected to be en route to Mexican drug cartels.


    Except the ATF agent in charge says that he never authorized that.

    The tactic, which was intended to allow agents to track criminal networks by finding the guns at crime scenes, was condemned after two guns that were part of the operation were found at U.S. Border Patrol agent Brian Terry’s murder scene.


    Again, ATF denies that they ever authorized that tactic.

    I think allowing guns to walk which would enable them to be tracked t criminal networks AFTER they have been used in a crime...is criminal. I wonder if the judge that approved the operation knew this detail.
    And still, that was not their intent.

    What I think is criminal is pillorying the men and women who are busting their butts and putting their lives on the line to try to stop the illegal flow of guns which is estimated to be 2000 guns A DAY — and all in a political game to trip up President Obama.
    Last edited by AdamT; 06-29-12 at 03:30 PM.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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