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Thread: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/226]

  1. #651
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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    What a bunch of trumped up idiotic bull****.

    Holder as a public official has NO, NONE, ZERO expectation of privacy in his capacity as a constitutional officer, he is under congressional oversight as a condition of his function in office.

    The only question I have is if you are of the intellectual level portrayed by your post or just desperate enough to have an emotional lever to use against those against you politically? Either way, this is a pathetic argument and should be enshrined in the basement for posterity.
    "Yeah, he’s got a responsibility to protect executive privilege. That’s just part of preserving the powers of the presidency… He should do what he thinks is the right thing with regards to members of his team but preserve executive privilege."

    – Mitt Romney [defending Bush decision to ignore congressional subpoena]
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    So the two low to mid-level guys were offered up to take the fifth and that just ends it all? I don't have any reason to believe Obama was "in the loop", but certainly someone higher up he DHS/DOJ chain than these two WAS.
    Do you have any evidence to the contrary? I know you want it to be worse than the evidence shows, but only if wishing made it so

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    If that was the extent of it then why not offer up ALL of the documents to prove it, swamp Issa and his staff with TONS of paperwork and shut him up?
    If you're not a terrorist, then why not strip naked every time you go to the airport?
    If you have nothing to hide, why not let the police search your car and your home on demand?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    The innocent are USUALLY quite happy to cooperate.
    Have you cooperated as above? If the police want to search you, your home, your family, just in case you're doing something wrong, will you cooperate? You don't have anything to hide, do you?

  3. #653
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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Holder as a public official has NO, NONE, ZERO expectation of privacy in his capacity as a constitutional officer, he is under congressional oversight as a condition of his function in office.
    Then why hasn't be been arrested?

    Do you think he will be arrested? If so, for what crime?

    Shouldn't Obama be arrested too?

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Failure to comply in court gets you what? A contempt citation. Whats Holder getting? A contempt citation.
    Issa is a judge? When did this happen?

    Holder has been issued a contempt citation? When did this happen?

    Are you making stuff up? When did this happen?

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Issa is a judge? When did this happen?

    Holder has been issued a contempt citation? When did this happen?

    Are you making stuff up? When did this happen?

    The authoritarian mindset, kinda boggles the mind of sane people doesn’t it?
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Yep, and the way this looks, it also may be corruption in politics at the highest levels of the WH as well.




    Then why the cover up with Executive Privilege? :


    j-mac
    Pity the foo's that are the Cons... they keep striving to come up with equivalence, but consistently fall short.... Yes, the Dems have their share of corrupt officials and sex scandals, but they are consistently outdone by their Con counterparts who always boast bigger scandals involving more money, bigger wars, more hookers and wider stances .... There is no equivalence.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    How were these guns any different that the 1000's of guns the cartels already posses? Are these somehow "bad guns" as opposed to every other gun on the planet that never kill people and should never be regulated? Do you honestly believe that someone could have thought that that "plot" you are swallowing would ever have worked? There is plenty of evidence of US guns in cartel hands already, and that has not moved gun regulation an inch. What possible benefit could outweigh the ridiculously high risk of discovery? It was a lame ass opeation to begin with and mistakes were made in the field. They should have known....Bush people thought it up first.
    Last edited by iguanaman; 06-27-12 at 01:33 AM.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Issa is a judge? When did this happen?

    Holder has been issued a contempt citation? When did this happen?

    Are you making stuff up? When did this happen?
    Im not sure if youre trolling out of ignorance but you are aware of how House Contempt charges work and the authority they have to do so. You are also aware Issa is not a judge but can initiate a contempt charge through committee then refer it to the House.

    You seem to be deliberately trolling and dealing misinformation to muddy the waters. Its not working very well. This is a poltical as well as legal process and is NOT a court proceeding despite the similarities and your poor attempts to equate the two.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost, in post #658 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Issa is a judge? When did this happen?
    Holder has been issued a contempt citation? When did this happen?
    Are you making stuff up? When did this happen?
    Im not sure if youre trolling out of ignorance but you are aware of how House Contempt charges work and the authority they have to do so. You are also aware Issa is not a judge but can initiate a contempt charge through committee then refer it to the House.

    You seem to be deliberately trolling and dealing misinformation to muddy the waters. Its not working very well. This is a poltical as well as legal process and is NOT a court proceeding despite the similarities and your poor attempts to equate the two.
    Permit me refresh your memory:

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost, in post #650 View Post
    Failure to comply in court gets you what? A contempt citation. Whats Holder getting? A contempt citation.
    Clearly you were stuck in the mud. I was just trying to show you the way out.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    How were these guns any different that the 1000's of guns the cartels already posses?
    Many of the guns that were doing damage in Mexico came from sources other than the US. If the guns were from the US they were likely guns given to the military that defected to the cartels in that corrupt **** hole.

    Are these somehow "bad guns" as opposed to every other gun on the planet that never kill people and should never be regulated?
    So not you're not happy with regulating the crap out of guns in this country, you want to tell the whole world how they should handle their guns....Good luck with that.

    Do you honestly believe that someone could have thought that that "plot" you are swallowing would ever have worked?
    Apparently Obama and Holder did, and two agents died as a result. Now the poor little picked on, piss ant President isn't man enough to take the embarrassment of his own decision to dupe the American people with this program, he tries to cover it up.

    There is plenty of evidence of US guns in cartel hands already, and that has not moved gun regulation an inch. What possible benefit could outweigh the ridiculously high risk of discovery?
    Re election Campaign.

    It was a lame ass opeation to begin with and mistakes were made in the field.
    On that we agree, however, we conservatives are getting used to expecting this kind of BS out of the One.

    They should have known....Bush people thought it up first.
    Ah...BOB...Blame it on Bush.....Again, yawn!

    look, you know the differences I am sure, but I'll lay them out for you anyway...

    (1) First and foremost, operation Wide Receiver did not result in the death of a U.S. Border Patrol agent or an Immigrations and Customs Enforcement (ICE) officer. Fast and Furious did. The guns that ultimately killed Border Patrol agent Brian Terry and ICE officer Jamie Zapata were traced back to straw purchasers related to Fast and Furious. Zapata’s family filed a wrongful death suit against the U.S. Justice Department last week.

    Further, officials have confirmed that the guns from Fast and Furious have already killed hundreds of Mexican citizens and Holder has said on the record that they will likely kill many more. The total number of confirmed deaths so far from Wide Receiver: Zero.

    (2) Second, Wide Receiver, though flawed, was more of a gun-tracing operation than a gun-walking program. Gun-tracing involves putting specific safeguards in place to track firearms, such as RFID chips perhaps with video or aerial surveillance. Gun-walking is what happened in Fast and Furious, where ATF agents sold thousands of guns without a reliable way to recover them, apparently just hoping for the best.

    Some of the guns from Wide Receiver were implanted with RFID chips and were actively tracked electronically. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) in Phoenix also implemented aerial surveillance tactics in an attempt to follow the weapons.

    However, problems reportedly arose due to poorly implanted RFID chips which were forced into the guns, bending the antennas and decreasing their effectiveness. Cartels and straw purchasers also eventually came up with creative ways to shake tracking maneuvers and overhead surveillance, such as driving in loops for hours until surveillance planes had to refuel.

    Those in charge of Fast and Furious took no similar steps to strengthen their chances of recovering walked guns other than recording the serial numbers before watching them disappear in the hands of Mexican drug cartels.

    In fact, ATF agents involved in Fast and Furious have previously testified that they were ordered to stand down and not track the weapons even when interdiction was possible and instead “took notes” and let the guns walk across the Mexico border.

    (3) Third, one must take into account the size and scope of the operations.

    Speaking to members of the Senate Judiciary Committee earlier this month, Holder said that “three hundred guns” were allowed to “walk” (although note the difference between “tracing” and “walking” above) in Wide Receiver. While there is no evidence that suggests otherwise, the figure is dwarfed by the approximately 2,000 firearms that walked in Fast and Furious. Roughly 1,400 guns were lost and about 700 have been recovered in Mexico and at crime scenes like the sites of Terry and Zapata’s murders.

    (4) Perhaps the most convincing piece of evidence proving the two operations are separate from each other is the fact that Wide Receiver was shut down in 2007 shortly after it was clear the program was a failure. This was before Obama was even in office and nearly two years before Fast and Furious began.

    Fast and Furious wasn’t shut down until late 2010 after the deaths of hundreds of Mexicans, a border agent and an ICE officer.

    (5) Finally, unlike Fast and Furious, officials involved in Wide Receiver were reportedly in close contact with Mexican authorities during the operation, though how involved Mexican officials were is not entirely known.

    What is known is that Mexican authorities were kept completely in the dark during Fast and Furious, according to the Mexican ambassador to the U.S. Mexico. He announced on June 1, 2012, that Mexico would be launching its own probe into Fast and Furious.

    It should be perfectly clear that both the Bush and Obama administration conducted two separate, flawed operations. One, however, was a much deadlier and larger operation.

    If there is evidence of wrongdoing, or false testimony related to operation Wide Receiver, those responsible should be held accountable. But the argument that Fast and Furious is all about “politics” and should just be swept under the rug because the previous administration also carried out a similar program is irresponsible."

    The 5 Biggest Differences Between Operations Fast and Furious and Wide Receiver | Video | TheBlaze.com

    But I am sure that you and other libs will continue to blame Bush while the rest of the country rolls its eyes every time you do.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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