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Thread: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/226]

  1. #521
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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    That doesn't make it a constitutional right.
    According to the Supreme Court it does. While you are free to disagree with them, sans any argument from you -- other than 'because I say so' -- then their argument carries more weight.

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    It's only acceptable purpose is national security. Law enforcement operations are not covered under national security.
    I'm just quoting this so that it's clear that -- in your opinion -- use of executive privilege is only acceptable for national security purposes. I'm not going to debate the issue, I just want it clear for everyone else.

    And by the way, the Supreme Court disagrees with you

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    [...] Issa is not looking for documents about F and F, or about the death of Agent Terry (again, shame on the right for using his death, and his family, as a political soapbox), he is looking for documents that might indicate a cover up, an intent to punish whistleblowers, or some other admission of knowledge that has not been made public. In other words, he doesn't give a **** about F and F, he's just trying to find some way to damage the administration after the fact.
    That is a very valid line of investigation especially after the DOJ provided a fake letter to the congress. Now they are obligated to find out who prepared the fake letter and what led up to it, among other things.
    I would agree with respect to the latter (whistleblowers), perhaps not with respect to the former (coverup; it would depend if a crime was being covered up).

    However, my point is that Issa is not interested in F&F, nor is he interested in Agent Terry, which makes him a huge hypocrite, liar, and a real slimeball (for using Agent Terry's death for political gain). If Agent Terry had not been killed, Issa would have nowhere near the publicity he has on this issue, which makes Agent Terry's death the best thing that has happened for Issa's political ambitions on this issue, and I'm sure that he knows it and that is why he and his right wing extremist cohorts (like Fox News) are using it (when it is really unrelated to his investigation) -- and that is really, really low class. Slimeball class. Scum.
    Last edited by Karl; 06-24-12 at 10:57 PM.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

    In the end, I don't think this will affect one vote. We are so polarized as a nation that our "issues" take precedence of any kind of logic or behavior.

    Every administration has scandals. Considering what a pack of crooks they all are, I'm amazed there are so few. This is stupidity covering up stupidity. Its like a Chinese puzzle box.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    The White House did not order a B & E. There is some question as to whether Nixon ordered it. The downfall of Nixon lay in the coverup and the lying about the issue. Nixon destroyed documents, most notably 26 or so minutes of a recording, and refused to give documents to Congress. Do you see a pattern here?

    Several high level officials went to jail over Watergate, Nixon lost his job. Hopefully, the pattern will continue.
    As for your assertion that a petty breakin in an office building compares to a botched program where 200 people were killed. I would have to disagree.
    The CREP was centered in the White House.... John Dean was involved in the decision. It was corrupt politics had its highest.

    Its a wild-ass stretch to come up with the notion that 200 people were killed by a botched program. The deaths of those people had nothing to do with F&F and everything to do with the drug wars. Unless you are suddenly telling its its not people that kill people, but guns that kill people you are really out on a limb that can not hold the weight on inchworm.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    According to the Supreme Court it does. While you are free to disagree with them, sans any argument from you -- other than 'because I say so' -- then their argument carries more weight.
    No, it means it's an implied power of the Executive Branch...not a constitutional right of the President.

    I'm just quoting this so that it's clear that -- in your opinion -- use of executive privilege is only acceptable for national security purposes. I'm not going to debate the issue, I just want it clear for everyone else.

    And by the way, the Supreme Court disagrees with you
    No, the supreme court agrees with me...that's why they said Nixon had to turn over his taped conversations from the oval office.

    I don't think anyone else needs you to clear it up. I stated it pretty clearly.
    Last edited by mac; 06-25-12 at 08:12 AM.
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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    The CREP was centered in the White House.... John Dean was involved in the decision. It was corrupt politics had its highest.
    Yep, and the way this looks, it also may be corruption in politics at the highest levels of the WH as well.


    Its a wild-ass stretch to come up with the notion that 200 people were killed by a botched program. The deaths of those people had nothing to do with F&F and everything to do with the drug wars. Unless you are suddenly telling its its not people that kill people, but guns that kill people you are really out on a limb that can not hold the weight on inchworm.
    Then why the cover up with Executive Privilege? :


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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Yep, and the way this looks, it also may be corruption in politics at the highest levels of the WH as well.
    Issa admits that there is no evidence of WH involvement.


    Then why the cover up with Executive Privilege?
    Separation of powers. Congress does not have the unfettered power to invade the executive branch's deliberative process -- especially not when it appears to be a politically motivated fishing expedition.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Issa admits that there is no evidence of WH involvement.




    Separation of powers. Congress does not have the unfettered power to invade the executive branch's deliberative process -- especially not when it appears to be a politically motivated fishing expedition.
    Bolded---maybe because he hasnt gotten the documents hes requested---which all changes after the assertion of executive privilige. Thats some mighty fine cherry picking of data there.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Issa admits that there is no evidence of WH involvement.




    Separation of powers. Congress does not have the unfettered power to invade the executive branch's deliberative process -- especially not when it appears to be a politically motivated fishing expedition.
    Great argument there. Since Holder will not supply F&F documents there is no eveidence of ANYONE'S involvement, so no problem. No brain, no headache. 2,000 guns walking and 200+ killed with those guns is not in dispute, but to you that is just the way it is, no problem. Rumors of 2,000 "disenfranchised" voters in FL and you want DOJ dispatched quick fast and in a hurry, but that is not partisan politics, that is an EMERGENCY! LOL
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Bolded---maybe because he hasnt gotten the documents hes requested---which all changes after the assertion of executive privilige. Thats some mighty fine cherry picking of data there.
    Usually we require probable cause in order to justify a subpoena. You don't authorize a massive document search on the theory that the production of documents might give you after-the-fact justification for the search.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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