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Thread: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/226]

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Well, that's easy:
    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Given that the documents subpoenaed encompass only the time period after 2/4/11, after which the F and F 'scandal' had already broken, and given that Holder assigned an Inspector General to the case sometime in 2/11, and given that Obama spoke publicly about F and F on 3/23/11, then it would be reasonable to assume that the subpoenaed documents would include the actions and communications of the president himself (I would presume he had also been informed of the IG investigation launched in February).

    [1] Issa is not looking for documents about F and F, or about the death of Agent Terry ([3] again, shame on the right for using his death, and his family, as a political soapbox), he is looking for documents that might indicate a cover up, an intent to punish whistleblowers, or some other admission of knowledge that has not been made public. [2] In other words, he doesn't give a **** about F and F, he's just trying to find some way to damage the administration after the fact.
    I only had to go back a few posts to see you offering an opinion...you're right, not difficult.
    #1 is a reasonable conclusion based upon the facts presented in the first paragraph. #2 is simply a restatement of #1 in harsher terms while also relying on other public behavior and statements by Issa that are not listed. #3 is clearly an admonition for callous public misbehavior. That Issa is a member of the "right" has no bearing on the facts or my interpretation of them, although many on the "right" are acting in concert with him (or vice versa). However, it is their actions that are analysed here, not their political lean.

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    So, what's you're opinion of the use of Executive Privilege?
    Your previous requests were along the lines of why did Obama invoke it. That, of course, is unanswerable by anyone other than Obama.

    If you mean the use of E.P. in the specific instance under discussion, the facts available do not indicate any problem with it. With that, I would note that those who do have a problem with it have no facts upon which to serve as a foundation for those problems.

    If you mean in general terms, unrelated to the current case, then I can certainly see a need for the practice (roughly speaking, it appears to be similar to attorney-client or doctor-patient privilege).

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Unfortunately, you're wrong again. LEUO information is not protected from court cases, nor does it have the strict controls you implied it has. That is a point, not an argument. Basing your argument on your less than perfect understanding of classified material is your problem.
    In theory, courts can see all information of either kind, but if the government requests that they don't, they need to weigh the risk to law enforcement or national security against the rights of the parties. Generally, of course, most law enforcement information is way less sensitive than most national security information, but that certainly isn't always the case. Stuff about a campaign against the cartel is definitely in the maximum secrecy range. But, again, none of that is relevant to what Congresspeople can see, and this information is probably both anyways.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Exactly. It would be privileged "if Holder made such an admission in a conversation with Obama" among others. So, if this is not the case, why is it privileged?
    I thought it was common knowledge that all private discussions between the president and his advisors were privileged.

    You seem to be arguing that the only such private communications that are privileged are those that show some type of guilt. Rather bizzare, but in line with -- I hate to say it -- typical right wing claims that perfectly constitutional acts, such as invoking the 5th amendment, or simply declining to testify in one's defense, are evidence of guilt. That's not a very patriotic, constitution-supporting view, is it?

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Whether or not it was illegal is irrelevant (sorta). That it was an extremely flawed plan is important. If the Boss came up with that plan, it's time for a new boss. [...]
    The plan, only minimally different, was "came up with" in 2006. I'm sure you know who the Boss was then. He's already gone. Yes, I know these facts will make you howl

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Listen sweet-cheeks, the point is made. You're trying to pass yourself off as knowledgeable on a subject you clearly are not knowledgeable on. End of story.
    Moderator's Warning:
    Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/226]Knock off the snarkiness, mac.
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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    I thought it was common knowledge that all private discussions between the president and his advisors were privileged.

    You seem to be arguing that the only such private communications that are privileged are those that show some type of guilt. Rather bizzare, but in line with -- I hate to say it -- typical right wing claims that perfectly constitutional acts, such as invoking the 5th amendment, or simply declining to testify in one's defense, are evidence of guilt. That's not a very patriotic, constitution-supporting view, is it?
    Whether or not they are privileged in general is also irrelevant. Why they are being redacted under executive privilege is the issue. We're talking about a law enforcement issue, not a national security issue...why the need to protect it?
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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Moderator's Warning:
    Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/226]Knock off the snarkiness, mac.
    Eh, I should knock off the snarkiness too. I was calling him "kiddo" first I think
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Eh, I should knock off the snarkiness too. I was calling him "kiddo" first I think
    That is correct.
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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Whether or not they are privileged in general is also irrelevant. Why they are being redacted under executive privilege is the issue. We're talking about a law enforcement issue, not a national security issue...why the need to protect it?
    I thought that all constitutional rights should be protected.

    I did not think that the excercise of constitutional rights was evidence of guilt.

    However, it seems that those bedrock founding principles of liberty and freedom are no longer universally accepted and cherished.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

    Quote Originally Posted by treedancer View Post
    Yet wide receiver and F&F were both operated out of the same ATF office.Kinda odd don't you think?
    I don't recall that President Bush invoked executive privilege to prevent the release of documents to a congressional committee seeking information about the death of a federal agent related to his program either.

    This just reeks of cover-up to everyone who isn't a liberal, socialist, or left of center democrat.

    Could this be President Obama's Watergate? Tick-tock...
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