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Thread: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/226]

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    As I noted above, because it involves an opinion. Trust me, you would not want to know my opinion of other peoples' opinions, for the most part anyway.
    You've had no troubles offering opinions about the motives of "the right". why stop now?

    "Who knew what and when" is a red herring. It means nothing unless it contradicts sworn testimony, or if the "what" is illegal. If, in a discussion with Obama, Holder contradicts his sworn testimony then you are out of luck -- you'll never get that piece of paper because of executive privilege (regardless of why it was invoked). Otherwise, "knowing" about F and F is not a crime. Indeed, I have not seen it argued that F and F itself was a crime (I may have seen some wild claims, but no real argument).
    Who knew what and when is not a red herring, it's exceptionally relevant. It would prove that Holder lied to the Congressional oversight committee (which is bad for a number of reasons). It could also prove that the operation was conceived by the WH (which the Republicans would love) and the American people should know that the Obama administration (if it were true) was behind it.
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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Kiddo. If you have an argument, present it. Don't play games trying to get people to guess what argument you think you have.

    Listen sweet-cheeks, the point is made. You're trying to pass yourself off as knowledgeable on a subject you clearly are not knowledgeable on. End of story.
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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    You've had no troubles offering opinions about the motives of "the right". why stop now?
    If you'll source your claim with a particular quote (which shouldn't be difficult) I'll address it. Otherwise, the non-specific nature of generalities preclude any relevant response.

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Who knew what and when is not a red herring, it's exceptionally relevant. It would prove that Holder lied to the Congressional oversight committee (which is bad for a number of reasons).
    But you're never going to get it, for the reasons I've already stated (if Holder made such an admission in a conversation with Obama, it would be privileged). Furthermore, I do wonder why you claim the documents would prove anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    It could also prove that the operation was conceived by the WH (which the Republicans would love) and the American people should know that the Obama administration (if it were true) was behind it.
    Now you're way out in the Conspiracy Theory End Zone, but you're never going to get that either. Executive privilege would apply.

    To sum up, the right (Issa) wants something they know that they'll never get, which gives them the immoral premise to claim that what they can't get -- for perfectly constititutional reasons -- must therefore contain what they implausibly claim it does. It's a nicely constructed paradox, but it is also transparent to any intelligent analysis (which neatly excludes their base and their propaganda media outlets).

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Listen sweet-cheeks, the point is made. You're trying to pass yourself off as knowledgeable on a subject you clearly are not knowledgeable on. End of story.
    Well, obviously you don't have an argument... Sure, national security classified information and law enforcement classified information are different things... No idea how you think that pertains to anything we're talking about though. This is arguably both. Everything I said is equally true of both anyways.
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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    [...] the American people should know that the Obama administration (if it were true) was behind it.
    Why? Are you asserting it was illegal? If so, in what way?

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    If you'll source your claim with a particular quote (which shouldn't be difficult) I'll address it. Otherwise, the non-specific nature of generalities preclude any relevant response.
    Well, that's easy:

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Issa is not looking for documents about F and F, or about the death of Agent Terry (again, shame on the right for using his death, and his family, as a political soapbox), he is looking for documents that might indicate a cover up, an intent to punish whistleblowers, or some other admission of knowledge that has not been made public. In other words, he doesn't give a **** about F and F, he's just trying to find some way to damage the administration after the fact.
    I only had to go back a few posts to see you offering an opinion...you're right, not difficult. So, what's you're opinion of the use of Executive Privilege?

    But you're never going to get it, for the reasons I've already stated (if Holder made such an admission in a conversation with Obama, it would be privileged). Furthermore, I do wonder why you claim the documents would prove anything.
    Exactly. It would be privileged "if Holder made such an admission in a conversation with Obama" among others. So, if this is not the case, why is it privileged?

    Now you're way out in the Conspiracy Theory End Zone, but you're never going to get that either. Executive privilege would apply.
    I wouldn't say "way out" it's plausible and only a little unlikely.

    To sum up, the right (Issa) wants something they know that they'll never get, which gives them the immoral premise to claim that what they can't get -- for perfectly constititutional reasons -- must therefore contain what they implausibly claim it does. It's a nicely constructed paradox, but it is also transparent to any intelligent analysis (which neatly excludes their base and their propaganda media outlets).
    See? Partisanship, and the "immoral premise" makes no sense.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Well, obviously you don't have an argument... Sure, national security classified information and law enforcement classified information are different things... No idea how you think that pertains to anything we're talking about though. This is arguably both. Everything I said is equally true of both anyways.
    No, it isn't equally true of both. For instance, age has nothing to do with clearance just for starters....The point is made, you don't know much beyond Hollywood about classified information.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Why? Are you asserting it was illegal? If so, in what way?
    Whether or not it was illegal is irrelevant (sorta). That it was an extremely flawed plan is important. If the Boss came up with that plan, it's time for a new boss. What's most important is whether or not the DoJ is lieing to the oversight committee.

    As far as conspiracy theories go...the only theory that makes sense if it were a whitehouse plan was in using it to push gun control legislation or bans. Again, unlikely....but possible.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    No, it isn't equally true of both. For instance, age has nothing to do with clearance just for starters....The point is made, you don't know much beyond Hollywood about classified information.
    Well, obviously you don't have an argument. Just insulting me at random doesn't hide that somehow... You are correct, there is a distinction between national security classified info and law enforcement classified info, but it isn't relevant to anything we're talking about. I get the sense that you just blurted that out and now you've realized it wasn't relevant, but you're just awkward about admitting stuff like that
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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Well, obviously you don't have an argument.
    There was no argument. There was a point.

    Just insulting me at random doesn't hide that somehow... You are correct, there is a distinction between national security classified info and law enforcement classified info, but it isn't relevant to anything we're talking about. I get the sense that you just blurted that out and now you've realized it wasn't relevant, but you're just awkward about admitting stuff like that
    Unfortunately, you're wrong again. First, I have not insulted you. Second, LEUO information is not protected from court cases, nor does it have the strict controls you implied it has. That is a point, not an argument. Basing your argument on your less than perfect understanding of classified material is your problem.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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