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Thread: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/226]

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    You don't put much thought into things, do you? Of course everyone knew about at the time the documents were requested. Obviously, it's hoped that who knew about it before is detailed in those documents.
    But you realize none of the documents being requested were created prior to 2/4/11, right?

    So your hope is that a document created on, say, 3/10/11 captures someone 'important' saying they knew about F and F on, say, 12/13/10?

    Holder: Well, Mr. President, in our 3.10.11 briefing today I should mention trouble from Congress in the Fast and Furious investigation, which of course I knew was running guns illegally way back in December of last year . . . . .

    That's what the right is looking for?

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    But you realize none of the documents being requested were created prior to 2/4/11, right?

    So your hope is that a document created on, say, 3/10/11 captures someone 'important' saying they knew about F and F on, say, 12/13/10?

    Holder: Well, Mr. President, in our 3.10.11 briefing today I should mention trouble from Congress in the Fast and Furious investigation, which of course I knew was running guns illegally way back in December of last year . . . . .

    That's what the right is looking for?
    In a very simplistic sort of way, I imagine something along those lines would be well received by the panel. However, despite all your diversions, why do you think they don't want to give the documents over?
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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    The documents in question are from an earlier time-frame. [...]
    Ah, I think I see your problem. Issa is requesting no documents that were authored prior to 2/4/11, at least with respect to the Holder contempt threat. It was in the homework assignment I posted earlier:

    The Committee has made clear that its contempt resolution will be limited to internal Department “documents from after February 4, 2011, related to the Department’s response to Congress.” [...]

    READ: Attorney General Eric Holder’s Letter to President Obama Requesting Executive Privilege Over ‘Fast and Furious’ Documents | Fox News Insider

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Ah, I think I see your problem. Issa is requesting no documents that were authored prior to 2/4/11, at least with respect to the Holder contempt threat. It was in the homework assignment I posted earlier:
    No, no. The date of the piece of paper is irrelevant. What they contain is likely to describe who knew what and when they knew it. Why else invoke the EP?

    Why do you keep avoiding that last question?
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    In a very simplistic sort of way, I imagine something along those lines would be well received by the panel. However, despite all your diversions, why do you think they don't want to give the documents over?
    Who cares what I think? I can assure you that I don't care what anyone else thinks. I'm here to see and participate a rational, fact-based debate (yes, I know -- folly). As I told you before, read the Holder-to-Obama letter; it lays out his reasons without any need to fantasize (which would surely involve partisan conspiracy theories).

    Barring any evidence to the contrary, we can only assume that what Holder wrote is the truth. It certainly makes sense -- privileged executive communications, are, well, privileged, and each administration has a duty to defend that privilege. If you think his claim is false, or it should not apply in this case, then your remedy is the court system. If you don't like the concept of Executive Privilege, then your remedy is to lobby your legislators to introduce a constitutional amendment banning it.

    If your remedy is to create partisan conspiracy theories, please be advised that I have no interest in them and will not address them.
    Last edited by Karl; 06-22-12 at 10:35 PM.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    The things you are talking about cross two different types of classified information. You are talking about Law Enforcement Use only information but trying to describe (poorly) controls given to national security information.
    And how did you think that was relevant kiddo? Go ahead, lay out your argument.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Who cares what I think? I can assure you that I don't care what anyone else thinks. I'm here to see and participate a rational, fact-based debate (yes, I know -- folly). As I told you before, read the Holder-to-Obama letter; it lays out his reasons without any need to fantasize (which would surely involve partisan conspiracy theories).
    But your opinion is oh-so-important to me. If all you are interested in is fact based discussion, why are you ignoring a major fact in the debate?

    Barring any evidence to the contrary, we can only assume that what Holder wrote is the truth. It certainly makes sense -- privileged executive communications, are, well, privileged, and each administration has a duty to defend that privilege. If you think his claim is false, or it should not apply in this case, then your remedy is the court system. If you don't like the concept of Executive Privilege, then your remedy is to lobby your legislators to introduce a constitutional amendment banning it.

    If your remedy is to create partisan conspiracy theories, please be advised that I have no interest in them and will not address them.
    Dude, I can't count how many times you've said "the right" so spare me the bs about partisanship.
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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    And how did you think that was relevant kiddo? Go ahead, lay out your argument.
    It's relevant because you are misrepresenting how the information is routinely handled, youngster.
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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    It's relevant because you are misrepresenting how the information is routinely handled, youngster.
    Kiddo. If you have an argument, present it. Don't play games trying to get people to guess what argument you think you have.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    No, no. The date of the piece of paper is irrelevant. What they contain is likely to describe who knew what and when they knew it. Why else invoke the EP?

    Why do you keep avoiding that last question?
    As I noted above, because it involves an opinion. Trust me, you would not want to know my opinion of other peoples' opinions, for the most part anyway.

    "Who knew what and when" is a red herring. It means nothing unless it contradicts sworn testimony, or if the "what" is illegal. If, in a discussion with Obama, Holder contradicts his sworn testimony then you are out of luck -- you'll never get that piece of paper because of executive privilege (regardless of why it was invoked). Otherwise, "knowing" about F and F is not a crime. Indeed, I have not seen it argued that F and F itself was a crime (I may have seen some wild claims, but no real argument).

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