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Thread: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/226]

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    You aren't thinking clearly. I am saying that Issa would possibly release the information because he wants to make Obama look bad. If there is anything in there that when presented out of context would get Issa in the headlines or make Obama look bad or get conspiracy nuts fired up, odds are that he would release it. That isn't why it is bad to release it, that is why he would release it.
    And you correctly said there is nothing wrong with that. We agree.

    Why it would be bad to release it is obvious. People would be killed, informants would be compromised, the operation would be undermined, etc.
    What evidence do you have that this would actually happen? What do you believe would be released?

    No kiddo. I know exactly what kind of information they get access to. It's basically just the same stuff any citizen gets for most of them, plus congressional research reports. Those aren't generally released publicly, but any senator or representative is authorized to release them and most of them that aren't just too boring to be worth anybody's time to release. Some senators and representatives get access to more secure information. The intel committee members for example. Like I've been explaining. But just your run of the mill member, nothing really that you don't have access to.
    Well you are know what kind of President is in the White House when even his colleagues are forced to be critical, as the link said, and also to "shut the f--k up". There doesn't appear to be the same problem in Congress or the Senate.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Like I said, the only way that the "Documents in Question" are protected under Executive Privilege, is if they concern the actions and communications of the President himself. That doesn't extend to the entire Executive branch, which includes most of the organs of the federal government.
    Given that the documents subpoenaed encompass only the time period after 2/4/11, after which the F and F 'scandal' had already broken, and given that Holder assigned an Inspector General to the case sometime in 2/11, and given that Obama spoke publicly about F and F on 3/23/111, then it would be reasonable to assume that the subpoenaed documents would include the actions and communications of the president himself (I would presume he had also been informed of the IG investigation launched in February).

    Issa is not looking for documents about F and F, or about the death of Agent Terry (again, shame on the right for using his death, and his family, as a political soapbox), he is looking for documents that might indicate a cover up, an intent to punish whistleblowers, or some other admission of knowledge that has not been made public. In other words, he doesn't give a **** about F and F, he's just trying to find some way to damage the administration after the fact.



    1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operati...ns_and_fallout
    Last edited by Karl; 06-22-12 at 09:44 PM.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    No, in fact, I'm wanting you to believe that they do. And...he is responsible for them. He can't claim that he didn't know about it; Holder can't claim he didn't know about it; and invoke EP.

    That's exactly the point.
    As noted in my post above, your point is chronologically challenged. During the time frame of the documents requested (and claimed privileged), everybody knew about it.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    And you correctly said there is nothing wrong with that. We agree.
    Why it would be bad to release it is obvious. People would be killed, informants would be compromised, the operation would be undermined, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    What evidence do you have that this would actually happen? What do you believe would be released?
    You aren't thinking clearly. I am saying that Issa would possibly release the information because he wants to make Obama look bad. If there is anything in there that when presented out of context would get Issa in the headlines or make Obama look bad or get conspiracy nuts fired up, odds are that he would release it. That isn't why it is bad to release it, that is why he would release it.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Which part were you unaware of?
    The part you mostly got wrong.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    As noted in my post above, your point is chronologically challenged. During the time frame of the documents requested (and claimed privileged), everybody knew about it.
    You don't put much thought into things, do you? Of course everyone knew about at the time the documents were requested. Obviously, it's hoped that who knew about it before is detailed in those documents.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Given that the documents subpoenaed encompass only the time period after 2/4/11, after which the F and F 'scandal' had already broken, and given that Holder assigned an Inspector General to the case sometime in 2/11, and given that Obama spoke publicly about F and F on 3/23/111, then it would be reasonable to assume that the subpoenaed documents would include the actions and communications of the president himself (I would presume he had also been informed of the IG investigation launched in February).
    The documents in question are from an earlier time-frame. Otherwise, there would be no need to cover them up.

    Issa is not looking for documents about F and F, or about the death of Agent Terry (again, shame on the right for using his death, and his family, as a political soapbox), he is looking for documents that might indicate a cover up, an intent to punish whistleblowers, or some other admission of knowledge that has not been made public. In other words, he doesn't give a **** about F and F, he's just trying to find some way to damage the administration after the fact.



    1. ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Details of the cover up are important, and had it been a Republican president, the Dems would be leading the charge, as they so often did when the shoe was on the other foot.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    The part you mostly got wrong.
    Well, if you come up with an argument, by all means post it. Otherwise, I guess you're the one that turned out to be wrong, eh?
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    good to hear
    then that means you were wrong to post this:
    [emphasis added]
    because if the executive staff is following the directions of the executive, then their work is also covered under executive privilege
    thanks for the admission
    Not so much. Executive privilege extends to the "immediate staff and advisors" of the President, but only when it concerns Presidential involvement.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Well, if you come up with an argument, by all means post it. Otherwise, I guess you're the one that turned out to be wrong, eh?
    The things you are talking about cross two different types of classified information. You are talking about Law Enforcement Use only information but trying to describe (poorly) controls given to national security information.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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