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Thread: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/226]

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    "Odds are a guy like Issa would just forward them on to Fox News"??? What evidence do you have to support this silly notion?
    What did you think he wants the documents for? That's the whole point of this thing. He wants to make Obama look bad. Period. How could he do that without releasing the information to the press? I mean, I can't say he would do it for sure. But I don't see how it would make sense to roll the dice on an ultra partisan nut like Issa who is clearly grandstanding for the conspiracy nuts.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    What did you think he wants the documents for? That's the whole point of this thing. He wants to make Obama look bad. Period. How could he do that without releasing the information to the press? I mean, I can't say he would do it for sure. But I don't see how it would make sense to roll the dice on an ultra partisan nut like Issa who is clearly grandstanding for the conspiracy nuts.
    What's wrong with making any politician, especially one with an immense amount of power, "look bad"? In fact it's the duty of every citizen pursue any indication of wrongdoing and not concern themselves whether the politician might "look bad"!

    Mister, if there is an ultra partisan nut anywhere, it's you. That's the only type who would want information kept secret from the people and not released to the public.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    What's wrong with making any politician, especially one with an immense amount of power, "look bad"?
    Nothing. Never said there was. Re-read my post I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Mister, if there is an ultra partisan nut anywhere, it's you. That's the only type who would want information kept secret from the people and not released to the public.
    Er what? You think that the only type who would not want the cartel to get the details of our campaign against them would be a hyper partisan? Um, I'm pretty sure you can think up one or two reasons that would be a bad idea, no?
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Classified information comes in many levels. Operational details against a campaign against the cartel is probably amongst the information you need to be the very most careful with. People in the DOJ who have access to that kind of information get years of training, they only keep it in physical files in ultra secure facilities or ultra secure computer systems that are not connected to the outside world in any way. The DOJ never releases the names of anybody who has access to that kind of information. If you just hand it over to a Congressional committee, literally, unpaid 19 year old interns get access to it, and the cartel would know every one of their names because it is all public record. Congresspeople have no training, no secure bunkers to keep their files in, just normal office computers hooked up to the internet...

    Now, some times information that highly secure has been shared with Congresspeople. For example, leading up to the Iraq war, Bush brought in one senator and one representative from each party to much more secure briefings on some of the most secret stuff. Obama brought in members of both parties on the Bin Laden killing. But, that is a VERY different thing than this. Who those folks are is carefully negotiated by the parties and the administration. They're usually moderates. They're people that everybody trusts. They often, if not always, have had a top security clearance in the relevant area previously for some reason or another because they were in the military or the DOJ or something previously. I mean, if you want to, say, send in McCain and Kerry to review the documents, I'd be totally fine with that.

    But Issa is a whole different deal. He is not John McCain. He's a hothead. He's a Joe McCarthy. A scandalmaker. That's his schtick. Trying to manufacture scandals for the conspiracy nuts. Nobody trusts him, nor should they. Turning ultra sensitive information over to a guy like that would get a lot of people killed for no reason other than to fuel his headline grabbing spasm. And turning it over to a whole committee, that should never happen.
    What movie did you get that from?
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

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    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    What movie did you get that from?
    Which part were you unaware of?
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Nothing. Never said there was. Re-read my post I guess.
    I questioned what's wrong with making a politician look bad and you replied "nothing", Okay, since that's been established why did you mention it in the first place?

    Er what? You think that the only type who would not want the cartel to get the details of our campaign against them would be a hyper partisan? Um, I'm pretty sure you can think up one or two reasons that would be a bad idea, no?
    There are thousands of State secrets in DC so having another about Mexican drug cartels is rather small potatoes. What do you fear about this information?

    Obama and his hack are playing CYA, that's all.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I questioned what's wrong with making a politician look bad and you replied "nothing", Okay, since that's been established why did you mention it in the first place?
    It doesn't seem like you're following. I was explaining why Issa would release the info.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    There are thousands of State secrets in DC so having another about Mexican drug cartels is rather small potatoes. What do you fear about this information?
    That is totally absurd. People like members of the house do not have access to operational information about any criminal enforcement stuff, and certainly nothing of the magnitude of the details about our campaign against the cartel, informant names, pictures of our undercovers, who knows what.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    It doesn't seem like you're following. I was explaining why Issa would release the info.
    Right. And then you said there was nothing wrong with that. I agree.

    That is totally absurd. People like members of the house do not have access to operational information about any criminal enforcement stuff, and certainly nothing of the magnitude of the details about our campaign against the cartel, informant names, pictures of our undercovers, who knows what.
    Is it your understanding that members of Congress are not privy to international secrets? In fact they always have been privy to State secrets.

    The only danger regarding security leaks has been the Obama White House.

    Feinstein Takes On White House Leaks | RealClearPolitics

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    No, in fact, I'm wanting you to believe that they do. And...he is responsible for them. He can't claim that he didn't know about it; Holder can't claim he didn't know about it; and invoke EP.

    That's exactly the point.
    good to hear
    then that means you were wrong to post this:
    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Like I said, the only way that the "Documents in Question" are protected under Executive Privilege, is if they concern the actions and communications of the President himself. That doesn't extend to the entire Executive branch, which includes most of the organs of the federal government.
    [emphasis added]
    because if the executive staff is following the directions of the executive, then their work is also covered under executive privilege
    thanks for the admission
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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Right. And then you said there was nothing wrong with that. I agree.
    You aren't thinking clearly. I am saying that Issa would possibly release the information because he wants to make Obama look bad. If there is anything in there that when presented out of context would get Issa in the headlines or make Obama look bad or get conspiracy nuts fired up, odds are that he would release it. That isn't why it is bad to release it, that is why he would release it.

    Why it would be bad to release it is obvious. People would be killed, informants would be compromised, the operation would be undermined, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Is it your understanding that members of Congress are not privy to international secrets? In fact they always have been privy to State secrets.
    No kiddo. I know exactly what kind of information they get access to. It's basically just the same stuff any citizen gets for most of them, plus congressional research reports. Those aren't generally released publicly, but any senator or representative is authorized to release them and most of them that aren't just too boring to be worth anybody's time to release. Some senators and representatives get access to more secure information. The intel committee members for example. Like I've been explaining. But just your run of the mill member, nothing really that you don't have access to.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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