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Thread: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/226]

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Let's all not overlook the obvious here... if Holder released all 80,000 documents that Issa wants, then Issa would merely turn around and subpoena another 80,000. The game being played here is clear... even to those playing it.

    It's the same of many 'debates' here at DP... a claim is made, a source is demanded, a source is provided, the source is dismissed on superficial grounds and another source is demanded. Ad nauseum.
    That would be wonderful, because then they'd have that excuse. As it is, they don't. And Adam, you still haven't shown where the POTUS has asserted EP. You've got the Atty General saying the president is going to do so. You maybe even have the Atty General requesting that the president assert EP (I say maybe because that doc isn't included in the PDF). But you don't have the POTUS, the only one who has the power to assert EP, claiming it.

    I'm not saying he hasn't, just that thus far, it's nowhere to be seen.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    That would be wonderful, because then they'd have that excuse. As it is, they don't. And Adam, you still haven't shown where the POTUS has asserted EP. You've got the Atty General saying the president is going to do so. You maybe even have the Atty General requesting that the president assert EP (I say maybe because that doc isn't included in the PDF). But you don't have the POTUS, the only one who has the power to assert EP, claiming it.

    I'm not saying he hasn't, just that thus far, it's nowhere to be seen.
    Fine. It hasn't been asserted. No evidence exists. All the media reports are wrong. The letter written by the Deputy AG ro Rep. Issa asserting the president's EP is a fake (or a hoax) (or the product of total incompetence or delusion on the Deputy AG's part). You win, because what has been provided does not meet your criteria
    Last edited by Karl; 06-21-12 at 10:03 PM.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    From the previously posted http://graphics8.nytimes.com/package...2011Letter.pdf



    I see where the Atty General is advising the POTUS to claim EP (in the not included letter), and the reasons he thinks it's okay to do so, but that isn't how a declaration of EP works. Where's the president's letter to congress asserting the privilege and explaining the legal reasons for doing so?
    Here is where you are confusing the issue. Obama is not using executive privilege to change the law, but to change the way it is enforced. The rationale for that is there are not enough resources to completely enforce it, so he chooses to go after the most egregious cases, not the ones where kids are brought into the country and ended up growing up here. Let's not forget that, under this administration deportations are the highest they have been in years, but the fact is, how much resources are you willing to devote to the problem? There is only so much in the budget for it, and if Congress decided to increase the budget to the point where Obama could go after ALL the lawbreakers, our budget would be busted in such a way that our present deficit would pale in comparison to it. Republicans have painted themselves into a corner. They are pushing for austerity, and draconian cuts to programs in order to obtain a balanced budget, but on the other hand, they want a level of enforcement that we cannot afford under the paradigm they are advocating. They can't have both without either losing the message on balanced budgets or alienating their base.
    Last edited by danarhea; 06-21-12 at 10:13 PM.
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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    From what I have read on the subject I don’t think the whole Fast and Furious operation was the result of any ill intent on the part of the administration or law enforcement. I think they genuinely thought it would help them take down the big players. They seriously f—ked it up and I think the argument can be made that, despite their good intentions, the means didn’t justify the intended ends.

    The ramifications of this f—k up are serious and people should be held accountable. You don’t get to take credit for the gambles that paid off (assault on OBL) and avoid responsibility for the gambles that don’t (Fast and Furious).

    Regardless of who is President, I always get annoyed when they invoke executive privilege. I believe in the separation of powers, within reason. I don’t think the executive branch should be allowed to ignore a Congressional subpoena. The Congress represents the People and the Executive Branch is accountable to the People. I don’t give a flip about political party.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcogito View Post
    Regardless of who is President, I always get annoyed when they invoke executive privilege. I believe in the separation of powers, within reason. I don’t think the executive branch should be allowed to ignore a Congressional subpoena. The Congress represents the People and the Executive Branch is accountable to the People. I don’t give a flip about political party.
    If this were like just some transcript of a meeting with a lobbyist or something, I would agree. But this is documents pertaining to our campaign against the drug cartels that are essentially in military control of our immediate neighbor. Protecting that kind of documents is absolutely, squarely, in the center of the kinds of things where the president should legitimately assert privilege. Odds are a guy like Issa would just forward them on to Fox News, but even if he didn't, the cartel would kidnap the little sister of some 19 year old unpaid intern that works for Issa like 5 minutes after they found out Issa got his hands on the documents and they'd have the documents by sundown and Issa wouldn't even know they had been copied. Who knows how many undercovers and informants would be killed that night or how many years our operations against the cartel would be set back.
    Last edited by teamosil; 06-22-12 at 01:29 AM.
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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    If this were like just some transcript of a meeting with a lobbyist or something, I would agree. But this is documents pertaining to our campaign against the drug cartels that are essentially in military control of our immediate neighbor. Protecting that kind of documents is absolutely, squarely, in the center of the kinds of things where the president should legitimately assert privilege. Odds are a guy like Issa would just forward them on to Fox News, but even if he didn't, the cartel would kidnap the little sister of some 19 year old unpaid intern that works for Issa like 5 minutes after they found out Issa got his hands on the documents and they'd have the documents by sundown and Issa wouldn't even know they had been copied. Who knows how many undercovers and informants would be killed that night or how many years our operations against the cartel would be set back.
    There are committees within Congress that have access to classified information on a daily basis. Starting with the 104th Congress, all House members were required to take a secrecy oath. There are methods in place to allow the committee members to view the information without releasing it to the public. If they violate their oath and responsibilities then hold them accountable. As it currently stands it too easy to hide misdoings under the veil of operational secrecy.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcogito View Post
    There are committees within Congress that have access to classified information on a daily basis. Starting with the 104th Congress, all House members were required to take a secrecy oath. There are methods in place to allow the committee members to view the information without releasing it to the public. If they violate their oath and responsibilities then hold them accountable. As it currently stands it too easy to hide misdoings under the veil of operational secrecy.
    Your argument seems to presume that Congress has the right to view any Executive branch document that it wishes. Congress does not have that right, as has been argued -- successfully -- by the Executive many times in the past. Security does not necessarily have anything to do with it.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    [/FONT][/COLOR][/LEFT]

    Bigger article coming as this just happened.



    i find it amazing how this administration is avoiding the government process to investigate the fast and furious debacle. Given this move, I am curious as to the opinions of others on this matter.
    Well, the President certainly has the right to use Executive Privelege and it's use is nothing new or unique to this President. My thing is that EP can only be used when the President is involved. Since the investigation is largely based on finding out what the Presidents involvement was, I think his use of EP not only proves he was involved, but that earlier statmements that Senior DOJ and Whithouse officials were unaware of the program were outright lies.
    Last edited by mac; 06-22-12 at 08:57 AM.
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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    If this were like just some transcript of a meeting with a lobbyist or something, I would agree. But this is documents pertaining to our campaign against the drug cartels that are essentially in military control of our immediate neighbor. Protecting that kind of documents is absolutely, squarely, in the center of the kinds of things where the president should legitimately assert privilege. Odds are a guy like Issa would just forward them on to Fox News, but even if he didn't, the cartel would kidnap the little sister of some 19 year old unpaid intern that works for Issa like 5 minutes after they found out Issa got his hands on the documents and they'd have the documents by sundown and Issa wouldn't even know they had been copied. Who knows how many undercovers and informants would be killed that night or how many years our operations against the cartel would be set back.
    "Odds are a guy like Issa would just forward them on to Fox News"??? What evidence do you have to support this silly notion?

    If leaks are your concern, try these.

    Pattern of White House Leaks Threatens Nation

    FBI looks into possible White House leaks - CNN


    David Axelrod Insists Classified Leaks Not From White House - ABC News

    You have things bass ackwards.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Your argument seems to presume that Congress has the right to view any Executive branch document that it wishes. Congress does not have that right, as has been argued -- successfully -- by the Executive many times in the past. Security does not necessarily have anything to do with it.
    Only documents either authored by or solicited and received by the President or a advisor in close "operational proximity" with the President can be claimed under Executive Privilege. Judicial precedent from 1997 set that scope as bounded by the Executive Office of the President and the White House, and the AG is not covered by that, unless the President himself was involved in all 80,000 requested documents.

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