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Thread: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/226]

  1. #251
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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    If I had 80,000 pages of documents about a gun-running operation, and you were investigating me, its OK that I pick which 8000 pages for you to see, and withhold the rest ?
    If you were to speak to a lawyer that is familiar with what Congress may and may not request from the Executive branch, you would find the answer to your question would quite possibly be yes, it is OK.

    The right wing argument, perpetrated especially in right wing talk media (but echoed by Republican congressmen) is based upon the Executive being legally required to give Congress any document that Congress asks for. Such a premise is, of course, incredibly ignorant. However, if the purpose of the argument is to damage the president politically, then all becomes clear (including the reason for ignorant arguments).
    Last edited by Karl; 06-20-12 at 07:25 PM.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    Personally, I don't think that Fast & Furious was created with that intention in mind. You're tip-toeing the line of conspiracy theory with talk like that. Especially when there is no evidence to support that claim.
    Well --------- actually --------- There's a link in my previous posts on just this. Is it iron clad, probably not, but with the past histories of Holder and Obummer it can't be summarily rejected either.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Of course it's unbelievable. Its a clear indication that the subpoena was wildly overbroad.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    [...] Holder is not providing the evidence believed to exist. That is contempt.
    Evidence of what?

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Evidence of what?
    WHO authorized fast & fuzzy and WHY. Why did about 2,000 guns, their serial numbers carefully logged by federal agents, get sold to KNOWN cartel straw buyers and then suddenly "disappear", with NO arrests or recovery of the weapons? "Whoopsie", just won't cut it any more. Hmm...
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 06-20-12 at 07:25 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    That's the problem in a nutshell, and why it is called an investigation. The job of the investigation committee is to determine the facts. When the what is determined, we then move on to the why and who. Then, if the facts warrant further actions, the actions should be taken. If not, no harm, no fowl.

    Holder is not providing the evidence believed to exist. That is contempt.
    In a real court case there are strict rules on discovery that prevent wild fishing expeditions like this one. Of course there are also many privileges that limit discovery. If a party requests documents that the other side contends are privileged, it's generally resolved by producing the documents to the court, rather than to the party seeking them, and the court determines which, if any, documents are priveleged and which, if any, should be produced. The problem with this procedure is that Issa is acting as both the prosecutor and the judge. Ultimately the DC Circuit will decide.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Of course it's unbelievable. Its a clear indication that the subpoena was wildly overbroad.
    Maybe congress should have asked only for the incriminating ones then. LOL
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    If you were to speak to a lawyer that is familiar with what Congress may and may not request from the Executive branch, you would find the answer to your question would quite possibly be yes, it is OK.

    The right wing argument is based upon the Executive being legally required to give Congress any document that Congress asks for. Such a premise is, of course, incredibly ignorant. However, if the purpose of the argument is to damage the president politically, then all becomes clear (including the reason for ignorant arguments).
    Shielding the president from "political damage" is not a sufficient reason to claim Executive Priviledge. Don't get me wrong, it's probably been used for just that purpose in the past. However, there were other, legitimate reasons given for the claim of EP.

    Congress holds the purse strings, so refusing their requests generally comes with a price. Hell, if you piss them off enough they could temporary freeze the funding for the DOJ until they satisfy congress. Probably not going to happen, but this does open the door for a huge dark spot opn the president's record right before an election.

    Not to mention, the congress critters who are also up for election - doing this and opposing this, makes them look like they are doing something.

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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    If you were to speak to a lawyer that is familiar with what Congress may and may not request from the Executive branch, you would find the answer to your question would quite possibly be yes, it is OK.

    The right wing argument, perpetrated especially in right wing talk media (but echoed by Republican congressmen) is based upon the Executive being legally required to give Congress any document that Congress asks for. Such a premise is, of course, incredibly ignorant. However, if the purpose of the argument is to damage the president politically, then all becomes clear (including the reason for ignorant arguments).
    WHO authorized fast & fuzzy and WHY. Why did about 2,000 guns, their serial numbers carefully logged by federal agents, get sold to KNOWN cartel straw buyers and then suddenly "disappear", with NO arrests or recovery of the weapons? "Whoopsie", just won't cut it any more. Hmm...
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  10. #260
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    Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Evidence of what?
    Evidence Holder is hiding from Congress with the help of the POTUS.

    Hey, I thought Romney was the flip-flopper.

    My Administration is committed to creating an unprecedented level of openness in Government. We will work together to ensure the public trust and establish a system of transparency, public participation, and collaboration. Openness will strengthen our democracy and promote efficiency and effectiveness in Government.

    Government should be transparent. Transparency promotes accountability and provides information for citizens about what their Government is doing.


    BARACK OBAMA
    Transparency and Open Government | The White House
    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Generalizations are stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Steel View Post
    The Second Amendment has nothing to do with guns.

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