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Thread: Teacher of the year is laid off.

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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Comfort Food View Post
    Ten states have not outlawed unions. Zero have. Unions have federal and constitutional protections. What you may be thinking is that in a handful of states collective bargaining for public employees is not required and in some it was never made legal. The exception of course being Wisconsin which was the first to make it legal and then the first to retract it. Back in the day collective bargaining for public employees was considered taboo for many reasons. I'd suggest you look up what FDR had to say about it.

    However, there are still public unions. You are looking at a policy (incorrectly interpreted as usual) and then stating that all public employes of those states are not in unions. That's false. And the point you made about right to work states is beyond silly. It has no influence in the subject.
    See above.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    still seeking to divert into this only and one point?


    And doesn't carry over for the reasons I mentioned. The priority for an educational system is the students, not the employees.
    No one disagrees. How, the priority for unions is the people they represent. Most know the difference and understand it. I doubt anyone wants to hurt students, but that doesn't change looking out for the best interests of the people you represent. You incorrectly assume you can't do oen without hurting the other.



    for individuals absolutely; which is why you use large data sets to average filter out outliers in order to allow you to determine trends.
    That doesn't help it. It really doesn't. There are too many variables. Some entire districts face much more problems than others. There is no level playing field. In one school, minimal improvement would be major. In another, it would be menaingless. YOu cannot in any way judge the teacher trhough the results of standardized testing, especially where the student has no stake.

    I didn't skip over it at all. In fact, I specifically stated in response to your question:
    No, I don't think you did. You spoke about unions. I spoke about private sector and non unions teacher. You skipped it.


    that:
    Which does not address what I asked.


    Perhaps you can defend a system which is set up to protect bad and mediocre teachers as superior? What prioritization does that flow from?
    There is no such system with that as a goal. The goal is to protect good teachers, just as the goal with US laws are to protect the innocent. That some benefit, unintentionally, is the cost of that protection. Remove it, and you still ahve the risk of a bad teacher being kept and a good teacher being fired but with no protection or process to assure anything.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Only five states do not allow collective bargaining for educators, effectively banning teachers unions. Those states and their SAT/ACT rankings are as follows:

    South Carolina 50th

    North Carolina 49th

    Georgia 48th

    Texas 47th

    Virginia 44th


    Read more: The Five States Where Teachers Unions Are Illegal Have The Lowest Test Scores In America* - Business Insider

    We can argue the semantics if you want. Or you can pretend.
    Why do you repost debunked arguments from other threads?

    As I stated before, those data are from 1999. And those states have seen significant improvement since 1999.

  4. #334
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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    Why do you repost debunked arguments from other threads?

    As I stated before, those data are from 1999. And those states have seen significant improvement since 1999.
    You're still missing point. ANd I told you that there. No where am I suing this to say anything about the scores. This is the relevant part: effectively banning teachers unions.

    NOw, if you need me to highlight, explain, draw a diagram, whatever, just let me know. But do try to get what is actually being argued.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You're still missing point. ANd I told you that there. No where am I suing this to say anything about the scores. This is the relevant part: effectively banning teachers unions.

    NOw, if you need me to highlight, explain, draw a diagram, whatever, just let me know. But do try to get what is actually being argued.
    If it has nothing to do with the test scores, why do you mention them?

    For me it seems like you are making this point
    - Test scores in states who ban collective bargaining for teachers is low.
    = banning collective bargaining for teachers is bad.

    If that isn't your point, then please explain.

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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aberration View Post
    Same way everyone else determines that. Results.
    Results on the standardized test? On writing samples? math samples? reading inventories? What? So far, the bureaucrats seem focused only on standardized test results, the poorest way of measuring student progress we have.

    And then, there are the factors outside of the control of the school. Are all the best teachers in schools that have the most involved parents?

    Actually, teaching a child of educated parents to read is very easy. Often, they can read before the school even starts formal instruction. Children of inner city single moms, children of migrant farm workers, children of illegal aliens, children with learning disabilities all pose more of a problem.

    An excellent teacher is one that can take children I've described and teach them to read by the end of second grade or so. That's too late for them to perform on the standardized test, even if they wanted to perform on the standardized test.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    If it has nothing to do with the test scores, why do you mention them?

    For me it seems like you are making this point
    - Test scores in states who ban collective bargaining for teachers is low.
    = banning collective bargaining for teachers is bad.

    If that isn't your point, then please explain.
    I think in context my point is easy to follow. I link the spot where the "effectively banning teachers unions" informtion is written and where it lists the states. We are talking about number of public unions and their power, not test scores. When reading something, context matters.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Results on the standardized test? On writing samples? math samples? reading inventories? What? So far, the bureaucrats seem focused only on standardized test results, the poorest way of measuring student progress we have.

    And then, there are the factors outside of the control of the school. Are all the best teachers in schools that have the most involved parents?

    Actually, teaching a child of educated parents to read is very easy. Often, they can read before the school even starts formal instruction. Children of inner city single moms, children of migrant farm workers, children of illegal aliens, children with learning disabilities all pose more of a problem.

    An excellent teacher is one that can take children I've described and teach them to read by the end of second grade or so. That's too late for them to perform on the standardized test, even if they wanted to perform on the standardized test.
    What I've seen of state legislators working on education reform has been a bit scary (what they don't know). I wonder why more teachers are not having input?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I think in context my point is easy to follow. I link the spot where the "effectively banning teachers unions" informtion is written and where it lists the states. We are talking about number of public unions and their power, not test scores. When reading something, context matters.
    Then why are you mentioning the test scores at all?

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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    What I've seen of state legislators working on education reform has been a bit scary (what they don't know). I wonder why more teachers are not having input?

    Because teachers understand the real world of educating children. The legislators don't want reality to interfere with their carefully crafted bull(bleep!) "reforms".
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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