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Thread: Teacher of the year is laid off.

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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Now look at the figures for this election, every year the public is represented less and the corporations are represented more. For those that would prefer a corporatocracy, I imagine this must be good news.
    Public Unions are not spending less and less per election. Furthermore, they were the biggest spenders even in a Republican sweep year, like 2010. It is good news that they will likely be less and less likely to maintain their growth in the future.

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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    The Teacher of the Year got laid?

    Awesome Prize!!

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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Comfort Food View Post
    Here is one statistic..
    http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cj30n1/cj30n1-8.pdf

    Flip to page 160. You can see that in 2009 the total % of all public school workforce was roughly 70%. The figures go up and down every year, obviously. Last I heard through word of mouth it was in the 70-75% range But again, this is total public school workforce. Teachers are the most likely profession in public education to be in a union. This is why I said roughly 75%. I do not know specifically for teachers only because I believe school districts only report total employees. I am not sure if they actually break it down. Regardless the number is at least 75%. I think looking at this graph would both agree this is not a far-reaching number and if anything it downplays it.

    The problem with quoting that site that is anti-union is that I don't know where they get their numbers from (didn't check), but I doubt it is professionally done. I would trust the numbers I hear over a random hate site on the internet. Even if they are trying to exaggerate statistics I don't think they're intelligent enough to even do that properly. You also have to factor in that the states with low union percentages have low populations and overall teacher employment. Unions tend to thrive in states with high population densities.

    The statistics from CATO comes from National Center for Education Statistics
    http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2009/2009020_0.pdf

    This doesn't seem to be the full article. I am looking for the original source of their statistic. But I don't really care enough to dig it up to be honest. If I don't find it soon I'm not going to keep looking.
    I have no trouble with Cato. But we have ten states that have outlawed unions. 10 states is more than 30% of the population I would think (as they include high population southern states). So I would like to see more.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by RadicalModerate View Post
    The Teacher of the Year got laid?

    Awesome Prize!!
    Well, while I'm sure that would be an awesome prize, I think you should read further.
    ~Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.
    ~I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
    ~If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting?
    George Carlin

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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I have no trouble with Cato. But we have ten states that have outlawed unions. 10 states is more than 30% of the population I would think (as they include high population southern states). So I would like to see more.
    your premise is wrong.

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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Comfort Food View Post
    your premise is wrong.
    Which one is that?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    I am guessing the part where unions are outlawed.
    Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry.
    ― Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Public Unions are not spending less and less per election. Furthermore, they were the biggest spenders even in a Republican sweep year, like 2010. It is good news that they will likely be less and less likely to maintain their growth in the future.
    First, to my point that you ignored before, during this election cycle, Mr 1% has received almost 3 times as much campaign money from Wall Street, and more than twice as much from the entire financial sector.
    Candidates Know Where the Money Is - Room for Debate - NYTimes.com

    Here's how much business overspent unions in the 2010 election:
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Catawba; 06-21-12 at 02:45 AM.
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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aberration View Post
    I am guessing the part where unions are outlawed.
    Well, 5 states ban it outright (NC, SC, GA, Texas, and VA). 22-23 states are right to work.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I knwo you think if you make enough breaks you'll confuse who you're speaking to, but you need to back and read. Unions don't teach.
    That is correct. They are, in fact, bad for teaching.

    In the same sense that law that protect the innocent in our justice system sometimes helps the guilty, a poor teach can be protected in a limited baises. However, there is a process everywhere. So, your complaint really holds no water.
    That is incorrect because the two are not comparable. With respect to the law our highest value is to protect the rights of the accused. We are willing to accept that some guilty go free in order to minimize the possibility that the innocent will be punished. In our public school system, however, our highest value is not the employment or the careers of teachers - it is the education of children. If we discovered tomorrow that our children could be better educated if we stuck them all in front of computers with automated teaching that followed their individual cognitive development, and that this could be accomplished for a moderate price, the correct solution would be to let the vast majority of our teachers go and replace them with the automated system. That would be horrible for teachers, to be sure. But it would be what is best for our students, and we have a public education system to benefit our students, not our teachers. The tendency to swap those two priorities is the main driver behind the damage wrecked by teachers unions - they seek first foremost and mostly what is best for teachers. That, after all, is their job.

    MAny workers have no protection. On that you are right. People do get unfairly fired. I suppose you're suggesting this is better than have a process in place to make sure a firing is justified?
    yes. Especially when the process you have put into place is so throttled with regulation and waiting and trouble and effort and cost that it is in effect a protective mechanism for horrible teachers who shouldn't be allowed anywhere near students. Claiming to be putting into place a system that keeps teachers who show good performance from getting fired unfairly, the unions have generally succeeded in putting into place a system that keeps teachers who show poor performance from getting fired period.

    Are you seriously arguing it doesn't happen?
    I am telling you it does. That's the story behind this entire thread. Union rules force us to fire good teachers in order to keep senior teachers, regardless of their quality.

    However, this is the type of thing your side does. Fine an example, which really represents a small number, and tries to make it seem like a huge problem.
    The quality of people that we attract to and then retain within public education is indeed a problem. We need some of our best, and instead we are attracting our mediocre, and once they get into the system we aren't promoting our best, we are promoting our older.

    So where do you want the protection? Risk keeping a few bad apples to protect the good, or sacrifice some good to amke sure get the bad faster? Both numbers are likely small. And good and bad is likely not as clear as you think.
    The priority is that students receive quality teachers. Ergo, the system should be designed to weight in favor of removing poor teachers, with the acknowledgement and acceptance that sometimes this means good teachers will fall through the cracks.

    You're showing your lack of understanding of what is said again. Reread and try again.


    Doesn't change my response. I maintian you don't understand the issue.
    I maintain you didn't read carefully enough, responded foolishly, are now trying to wriggle out of it.

    Effect on students? If you're using standardized test scores for that, you are getting misinformation plain and simple.
    Somehow I knew that was the only part of that you would pull out. But no, as I have explained dozens of times to you, the system is not so simple as "standardized test scores".

    Sounds like yet one more misunderstanding on your part.
    The last time we discussed this, as I recall, you proposed the ridiculous notion that student achievement had nothing to do with teacher quality. It was almost as bad as your earlier claim that the government of North Korea had no impact on its' economy as far as detachment-from-reality.

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