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Thread: Teacher of the year is laid off.

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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Layla_Z View Post
    The point I've been trying to make and that some seem unable to grasp is that unions are not as pervasive as some think. The following link is from a very anti teacher union site, but it shows that unions don't control every state. I teach in Missouri where under 20% of teachers are in unions.

    Unions | Teachers Union Facts
    Exactly, only 11% of the US population belong to unions (which includes public and private unions). They are just a shiny object the GOP uses to distract their followers while they are accumulating record wealth at the expense of the working class.

    Seems to be working for them!

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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Comfort Food View Post
    Well if you don't agree with something or don't like the answer, don't keep asking it then complain about the answers given. That's just silly.
    Why not? That's exactly what you've been doing. You seem completely unable to grasp that there could be schools out there different from your own. Anytime I've suggested that your experience might not be the way it is everywhere you as though my experiences must be completely unique. Anytime someone says something that doesn't fit your narrow view you declare them wrong with nothing to pack up your opinion.

    I know many, many hard working, excellent teachers. I'm a department chair and have led several committees. In 20 years and with a great deal of experience with many schools, I've found such teachers to be the majority. I work in a state without a strong union presence and with one of the lowest salaries in the country.

    I'll say this and then I'm done. Just like all the terrible teachers you seem to know, I won't do anything I'm not being paid to do and I'm not being paid to teach you.
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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Layla_Z View Post
    The point I've been trying to make and that some seem unable to grasp is that unions are not as pervasive as some think. The following link is from a very anti teacher union site, but it shows that unions don't control every state. I teach in Missouri where under 20% of teachers are in unions.

    Unions | Teachers Union Facts
    That's why I asked him this:

    Comfort, are you saying there are no non-union teachers? Police officers? Firefighters?

    If you are, you're factually incorrect.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Layla_Z View Post
    Why not? That's exactly what you've been doing. You seem completely unable to grasp that there could be schools out there different from your own. Anytime I've suggested that your experience might not be the way it is everywhere you as though my experiences must be completely unique. Anytime someone says something that doesn't fit your narrow view you declare them wrong with nothing to pack up your opinion.

    I know many, many hard working, excellent teachers. I'm a department chair and have led several committees. In 20 years and with a great deal of experience with many schools, I've found such teachers to be the majority. I work in a state without a strong union presence and with one of the lowest salaries in the country.

    I'll say this and then I'm done. Just like all the terrible teachers you seem to know, I won't do anything I'm not being paid to do and I'm not being paid to teach you.
    I haven't been asking you to repeat yourself. I've asked you specific questions for clarity. I recognize that only about three quarters of public school teachers are represented by a union, but that doesn't change my position on unions and their effect on public education. Disagreeing with certain practices of unions is not an attack on individual teachers.

    And here's some food for thought for you. Do you think a salaried architect working for a firm could tell his boss that he won't put in the extra work/effort to get a project done because he's "not being paid to" do something that is asked of him? What do you think would happen to that architect if he told his boss that? You say you only work with hard-working teachers, but then follow it up with you won't do "anything" you feel you are not being paid to do. Most people in America do a lot of things they feel is outside their job description if their employer requests it of them. I'm not sure you would refuse. That kind of job security must be nice.
    Last edited by Comfort Food; 06-19-12 at 10:31 PM.

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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Comfort Food View Post
    I haven't been asking you to repeat yourself. I've asked you specific questions for clarity. I recognize that only about three quarters of public school teachers are represented by a union, but that doesn't change my position on unions and their effect on public education. Disagreeing with certain practices of unions is not an attack on individual teachers.

    And here's some food for thought for you. Do you think a salaried architect working for a firm could tell his boss that he won't put in the extra work/effort to get a project done because he's "not being paid to" do something that is asked of him? What do you think would happen to that architect if he told his boss that? You say you only work with hard-working teachers, but then follow it up with you won't do "anything" you feel you are not being paid to do. Most people in America do a lot of things they feel is outside their job description if their employer requests it of them. I'm not sure you would refuse. That kind of job security must be nice.
    Wow, you don't get sarcasm do you. After a $5000 pay cut I do quite a bit that I'm not paid for. The thing I'm not being paid to do that I refuse to do is try to teach you.
    ~Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.
    ~I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Comfort Food View Post
    I haven't been asking you to repeat yourself. I've asked you specific questions for clarity. I recognize that only about three quarters of public school teachers are represented by a union, but that doesn't change my position on unions and their effect on public education. Disagreeing with certain practices of unions is not an attack on individual teachers.

    And here's some food for thought for you. Do you think a salaried architect working for a firm could tell his boss that he won't put in the extra work/effort to get a project done because he's "not being paid to" do something that is asked of him? What do you think would happen to that architect if he told his boss that? You say you only work with hard-working teachers, but then follow it up with you won't do "anything" you feel you are not being paid to do. Most people in America do a lot of things they feel is outside their job description if their employer requests it of them. I'm not sure you would refuse. That kind of job security must be nice.
    75% seems high to me.

    Highlights from the 2011 data:

    --Public-sector workers had a union membership rate (37.0 percent) more
    than five times higher than that of private-sector workers (6.9
    percent). (See table 3.)

    --Workers in education, training, and library occupations had the
    highest unionization rate, at 36.8 percent, while the lowest rate
    occurred in sales and related occupations (3.0 percent). (See
    table 3.)

    Union Members Summary

    If I'm reading the data right, it looks more like only a third.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    75% seems high to me.

    Highlights from the 2011 data:

    --Public-sector workers had a union membership rate (37.0 percent) more
    than five times higher than that of private-sector workers (6.9
    percent). (See table 3.)

    --Workers in education, training, and library occupations had the
    highest unionization rate, at 36.8 percent, while the lowest rate
    occurred in sales and related occupations (3.0 percent). (See
    table 3.)

    Union Members Summary

    If I'm reading the data right, it looks more like only a third.
    It might be scewed as they group education with training and library occupations.
    “Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry.”
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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aberration View Post
    It might be scewed as they group education with training and library occupations.
    Perhaps. But I would like to see some numbers. I would assume if you say 75% you have something that says that.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    75% seems high to me.

    Highlights from the 2011 data:

    --Public-sector workers had a union membership rate (37.0 percent) more
    than five times higher than that of private-sector workers (6.9
    percent). (See table 3.)

    --Workers in education, training, and library occupations had the
    highest unionization rate, at 36.8 percent, while the lowest rate
    occurred in sales and related occupations (3.0 percent). (See
    table 3.)

    Union Members Summary

    If I'm reading the data right, it looks more like only a third.
    You've probably read the data right, just weren't capable of interpreting it incorrectly. You said you were an educator right? You have been making a lot of posts that make me think otherwise.

    Anyway, the typical number that gets flown around is that 70-75% of all public school employees are in a union. I don't believe the numbers get reported by teacher's only, but I could be wrong. And, there are many exempt or privatized employees in school districts. Jobs that are sometimes not in unions: custodians, lunch aides, principals, secretaries, administrators, paraprofessionals, social workers, IT, grounds, teacher's aides/student teachers, etc. So knowing this I deduced that at least 75% of public school teachers are in a union, the number is most likely higher, but I don't have an exact stat off the top of my head which is why I said "roughly."

    You are free to check my number, if you choose to do so please find a source that does exactly that and doesn't include ambiguous positions like "trainers" and private employees. The number I gave clearly referenced public school teachers.
    Last edited by Comfort Food; 06-20-12 at 08:10 AM.

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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You are dishonestly including years when Union membership was much higher than it is today. Only 11% of the population belongs to a union today (both public and private). That makes a big difference. When you look at the big donor numbers in 2010 and this year, the GOP are far ahead.
    October 2010: Public Employees Union Is Now Campaigns Biggest Spender



    Huh, look at that. Of the top five spenders, three of them are Public Sector Unions...

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