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Thread: Teacher of the year is laid off.

  1. #251
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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    I wouldn't step through the door of the classroom without union protection, and I'll tell you why. It has nothing to do with the administration nor the board.

    All a little tart has to do is point a finger and say, "he touched me", and you're in for the fight of your life. You don't actually have to touch her, you understand, just be accused, and you have a choice:

    Depend on an underpaid and overworked public defender to save your career and your reputation.
    Pay every cent you have for decent representation, if, that is, you've been working long enough to have a savings account at all
    Depend on the union to back you up.

    Don't expect the school district to support you, regardless of the facts of the case.

    Accused = guilty, and you have to prove you're innocent.
    The union part of this is backwards. Unions want teachers to be allowed to be lazy in administering discipline. That way teachers don't have to put up with it.

    They kind of had this coming though. When you professionalize education, you dismiss social values. Therefore, people forget about duty of care. They forget that they're entitled to understand manners by the time they're graduated into adulthood, and teachers are allowed to get away with not teaching them.

    Instead, teachers get to indoctrinate students with feminism, multiculturalism, environmentalism, and egalitarianism rather than caring about people for being people.

  2. #252
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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Sacramento ‘Teacher of the Year’ laid off


    Work hard, excel at what you do, contribute to society, and get laid off anyway.

    Ain't it great?
    Yes, there's more to life than working hard.

    I'm not surprised. When you teach people to believe they're only valuable as tools, they get treated like tools.

    This part of the article was no surprise:

    The Sacramento City Unified School District has suffered approximately $143 million in budget cuts in recent years. School spokesperson Gabe Ross told News 10 that who gets laid off is mandated by state law and is based on seniority, not performance.


    No kidding, eh? That's how unions always work.

  3. #253
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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daktoria View Post
    The union part of this is backwards. Unions want teachers to be allowed to be lazy in administering discipline. That way teachers don't have to put up with it.
    Unions want teachers to want to join them and pay dues. They do this by negotiating decent salaries and working conditions. Your assertion is simply wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daktoria View Post
    They kind of had this coming though. When you professionalize education, you dismiss social values. Therefore, people forget about duty of care. They forget that they're entitled to understand manners by the time they're graduated into adulthood, and teachers are allowed to get away with not teaching them.
    How does that relate at all to what I posted?
    Teachers don't teach manners?
    Manners is what keeps kids from making false accusations?

    Do you have any clue at all how sexually aware kids are nowadays, and why that is? Watch primetime TV sometime.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daktoria View Post
    Instead, teachers get to indoctrinate students with feminism, multiculturalism, environmentalism, and egalitarianism rather than caring about people for being people.
    You obviously have no idea at all what is taught in classrooms today.
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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Unions want teachers to want to join them and pay dues. They do this by negotiating decent salaries and working conditions. Your assertion is simply wrong.
    Yes, and...?

    Why would teachers want to administer discipline as a fair working condition? It's an additional burden. If anything, teachers would expect to not have to deal with unruly students in the first place.

    I don't remember ever having a disciplinary teacher growing up. At best, they played favorites, and let their favorites get away with everything while intimidating their favorites' victims on the odd occasion that a victim stood up for oneself.

    How does that relate at all to what I posted?
    Teachers don't teach manners?
    Manners is what keeps kids from making false accusations?

    Do you have any clue at all how sexually aware kids are nowadays, and why that is? Watch primetime TV sometime.
    Sexuality aside, I'm just talking about "duty of care" and making sure children communicate clearly with each other so they don't offend one another, nor misinterpret offense where it's unintended and respond awkwardly.

    Today's English classes fail at this even further by leveling "burden of proof". For example, when children make arguments, they're expected to explain why or why not.

    Burden of proof is always on the affirmative. When you teach students they have to explain "why not", they become self-conscious and allow bullies to intimidate them into thinking for bullies or letting bullies stand on top of them. The bully makes a brutal assertion, and intimidates the victim into proving the bully wrong. This can take place perpetually because children aren't taught about harassment either in terms of "abuse of process".

    You obviously have no idea at all what is taught in classrooms today.
    What I know is classrooms do not teach 100% of the social contract before graduating children into adulthood.

    Government cannot legislate more than it's willing to educate. Children aren't born with an implicit understanding of the rule of law.

    The reason it happens is because social elites want to preserve social status on top of inside information, daring outsiders to assume the risk of learning right and wrong the hard way.

    Those elites have no interest in seeing teachers succeed because they prey on ignorance, so yes, teachers will continue to be hired under crummy terms.
    Last edited by Daktoria; 06-19-12 at 01:13 PM.

  5. #255
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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daktoria View Post
    Yes, and...?

    Why would teachers want to administer discipline as a fair working condition? It's an additional burden. If anything, teachers would expect to not have to deal with unruly students in the first place.

    I don't remember ever having a disciplinary teacher growing up. At best, they played favorites, and let their favorites get away with everything while intimidating their favorites' victims on the odd occasion that a victim stood up for oneself.



    Sexuality aside, I'm just talking about "duty of care" and making sure children communicate clearly with each other so they don't offend one another, nor misinterpret offense where it's unintended and respond awkwardly.

    Today's English classes fail at this even further by leveling "burden of proof". For example, when children make arguments, they're expected to explain why or why not.

    Burden of proof is always on the affirmative. When you teach students they have to explain "why not", they become self-conscious and allow bullies to intimidate them into thinking for bullies or letting bullies stand on top of them. The bully makes a brutal assertion, and intimidates the victim into proving the bully wrong. This can take place perpetually because children aren't taught about harassment either in terms of "abuse of process".



    What I know is classrooms do not teach 100% of the social contract before graduating children into adulthood.

    Government cannot legislate more than it's willing to educate. Children aren't born with an implicit understanding of the rule of law.

    The reason it happens is because social elites want to preserve social status on top of inside information, daring outsiders to assume the risk of learning right and wrong the hard way.

    Those elites have no interest in seeing teachers succeed because they prey on ignorance, so yes, teachers will continue to be hired under crummy terms.
    I'm having a hard time relating any of this to what I've posted.

    Dealing with undisciplined children has got to be the most exhausting and stressful thing anyone can do. Successful teachers, the ones who actually have a long term career in teaching are masters at maintaining discipline based on a mutual respect between child and child, and child and teacher.

    Since I have no idea what it is you're saying with the rest of the post, I'll not attempt to address it.
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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Unions want teachers to want to join them and pay dues. They do this by negotiating decent salaries and working conditions.
    This is flatly false. They do this by making it compulsory or mandatory to join through lobbying politicians. Even if the teacher's union does not work in favor of the teachers their membership and dues are mandated by law. I have seen unions work in their own self interest and in the interest of union leaders while the working class teachers get screwed. The union's #1 priority is self preservation and power. Helping teachers is secondary.
    Last edited by Comfort Food; 06-19-12 at 02:12 PM.

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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Comfort Food View Post
    The union's #1 priority is self preservation and power.
    Aren't you confusing unions with government?
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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    Aren't you confusing unions with government?

    What's the difference these days? Obama has compiled the most aggressively pro union administration in possibly the nations history.


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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Of my 6 closest friends in the world, 3 of them are teachers. I have two people I call "siblings" because I was raised with them - both of them are teachers. I will probably teach at one point for pay - I certainly teach wherever I have the chance now.
    Reminds of people I knew growing up up who said they couldn't be racist because they had friends who were black. This doesn't change what you do regularly here.


    This is where you miss.
    Don't miss at all. It isn't unions who are lazy or incompetent.

    And the flip side of your complaint is that without unions, good competent teachers would have no protection. And yes, this happens. Personalities get in the way sometimes and good teachers lose jobs where there are not unions. I can't find your voice there. You take a small, small percentage, misrepresent the problem, and in doing so demonize teachers. It is what you do on a regular basis.

    If you want teachers to get respect and pay, then we need to start ensuring that we get good teachers who will deserve it. The way to do that is through judging and rewarding by merit, so that our society's high-performers are attracted to the field. Good luck getting that past the unions.
    Again they need to? Not administrators, not evaluators, not negoitators, but teachers. And what is merit? If you seek false measures as represented by NCLB, you're part of the problem. If you want to measure their knowledge, their classroom performance, measurable things they control, few will argue with you.

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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    Aren't you confusing unions with government?
    Some don't seem to know the difference!
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