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Thread: Teacher of the year is laid off.

  1. #231
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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Josie View Post
    I've read about great schools with teachers who are very dedicated to their students and work their asses off to get things done. I've read about schools where the teachers are HUNGRY for a new professional book, video, presentation... so they can try it in their class. Sadly, I've only read about them. Maybe someday I'll get to work in one of those schools.



    I think if it's something that will benefit the children and the district isn't able to pay for you for it, but asks for volunteers to help... those that help are the ones who are great teachers. Those who bitch and complain about their time and money aren't in the career for the right reasons. Now, I agree that teachers should be paid fairly - we have to make a living. But I don't think we have to be paid for every single little friggin' 5 minutes that we're asked to help do something.
    I'm sorry you don't like where you work and don't respect you fellow teachers. I've worked at different schools and talked to teachers at many others and have never seen, heard about, or experienced what you describe.

    I think that, to a point, teachers should do what needs to be done regardless of pay. However, I see nothing wrong with letting the adminstration know that you are doing work for which you are not being paid. They certainly won't increase pay if not asked. Also, we are not indentured servants and it is unfair and wrong to cut our pay and then increase our workload. Personally, I know some teachers that have had to take a second job to make up for pay cuts. These teachers can't spend as much time on their students. I also find it difficult to justify missing my own child's activities to do things I'm no longer being paid to do. On a personal level I'm especially bitter about this because even though we just had a big pay cut and budget cuts our superintendent just got a really big raise. He is what many think all teachers are. In at 8:00, out at 3:00.
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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Layla_Z View Post
    I'm sorry you don't like where you work and don't respect you fellow teachers. I've worked at different schools and talked to teachers at many others and have never seen, heard about, or experienced what you describe.

    I think that, to a point, teachers should do what needs to be done regardless of pay. However, I see nothing wrong with letting the adminstration know that you are doing work for which you are not being paid. They certainly won't increase pay if not asked. Also, we are not indentured servants and it is unfair and wrong to cut our pay and then increase our workload. Personally, I know some teachers that have had to take a second job to make up for pay cuts. These teachers can't spend as much time on their students. I also find it difficult to justify missing my own child's activities to do things I'm no longer being paid to do. On a personal level I'm especially bitter about this because even though we just had a big pay cut and budget cuts our superintendent just got a really big raise. He is what many think all teachers are. In at 8:00, out at 3:00.
    Layla, while I appreciate your refreshing view on the subject I think perhaps you have a local view and others have their own local view. Interestingly you don't have a union and say you have never seen many of the common things I and apparently Josie have witnessed at many, many public schools. If anything your arguments in defense turns into ammunition for the people you are debating. Do you believe the union mentality has an effect on public schools in our nation? Your arguments show that perhaps there is some anecdotal evidence to show that it just may. It may not be the all encompassing doomsday scenario, but from my experience it is clear that it has an effect. Almost all of which is negative to the education of children.

    Josie sounds like she has a CRT type position which from my experience many hard-working CRTs have similar views. They tend to be the people who go into teaching for the right reasons and feel slighted when others don't pull their weight.

    Out of curiousity Do you teach in a very rural area? I have a hinkering that you do and that may also play a part.
    Last edited by Comfort Food; 06-18-12 at 03:23 PM.

  3. #233
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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Why would unions block a system in which their members would get more pay and less hassle from administration, government, and bureaucrats?
    First it forces them to meet a standard, second, it allows parents to move their kids to whatever schools they want, third it removes the power base of the unions themselves. If they can block alternative schools like charters, they're a monopoly - part of the suggestions you gave means they'd have to give that up. Fourth, realize that not all teachers are great or even good teachers. That would mean, some would be fired (hopefully) or at the very least, retired early. Also not good for the unions. The Government wouldn't be unhappy because they could put new standards out and, as is going on now, just give exceptions to states who don't meet them without any issue at all. It's so easy for government to just shove this under the rug and then when it doesn't work out, give out exemptions like candy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    That makes less sense than you telling us how easy teaching is, and that you wouldn't want such an easy and well paid job for yourself.
    I never claimed teaching is easy, I claimed teachers had it made given their perks, and given the job, I'd hate teaching. Perhaps you'd understand better if you could comprehend what I'm saying. It's also apparent that you're ability to cognatively associate language with a counterpoint is lacking. You must be in a union... amirite?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    and, if the schools are so bad, how is it you got such a good education there?
    A BA or BS degree is easy to obtain. Kids seem to thrive in life, despite bad teaching in middle and HS levels.
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  4. #234
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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Layla_Z View Post
    What protection would that be? I've seen good teachers fired for no good reason. We've seen what happens to teachers now, what would happen without some sort of protection? As long as ignorant people (school boards, congress)are making decisions about what is best and ignoring the advice of the experts (teachers), teachers will need some sort of representation.

    I don't think teachers should strike. That is one of the reasons I've never been in a union and likely won't be. I understand the reasons behind the strike and often agree with the position of the teachers, but a strike hurts the students and they are not the ones making the decisions.
    Oh you've seen it have you? For nothing? That is interesting, but hardly compelling. What have we seen happen to teachers now?
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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    If they had to fire teachers, they shouldn't fire the good ones.
    Could be a tenure or policy thing. They may have had no choice as idiotic as that may be.
    It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

  6. #236
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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Comfort Food View Post
    Layla, while I appreciate your refreshing view on the subject I think perhaps you have a local view and others have their own local view. Interestingly you don't have a union and say you have never seen many of the common things I and apparently Josie have witnessed at many, many public schools. If anything your arguments in defense turns into ammunition for the people you are debating. Do you believe the union mentality has an effect on public schools in our nation? Your arguments show that perhaps there is some anecdotal evidence to show that it just may. It may not be the all encompassing doomsday scenario, but from my experience it is clear that it has an effect. Almost all of which is negative to the education of children.

    Josie sounds like she has a CRT type position which from my experience many hard-working CRTs have similar views. They tend to be the people who go into teaching for the right reasons and feel slighted when others don't pull their weight.

    Out of curiousity Do you teach in a very rural area? I have a hinkering that you do and that may also play a part.
    Why is it that you can take your experiences and apply it to all education but my experiences are dismissed? Oh wait, I know - because my experiences do prove your points. I witnessed many public schools as well, rural, urban, and suburban. I don't know how in the world my experiences to the contrary can turn into ammunition for those who don't agree. I do teach at a rural school and I'm very familiar with many of the schools around me. There are more small rural schools in this state than there are urban schools. I'm also know a great deal about larger schools in the state where the union is stronger. Of course the union affects education in this country but I don't think it is the root of all evil as some do.

    I don't know if Josie or you for that matter are good teachers in the profession for the right reasons or not. I do know that I've seen her posts for awhile and we've talked before on education and our experiences are not the same. I don't deny that her experiences are legit, they are just not like mine. I've tried to point out many times that there are vast differences across the country in education and local experiences don 't necessarily apply to what is going on everywhere. I do find it interesting that you choose to dismiss anyone whose experiences are different from your own. You sound very young. Your condension is insulting and childish.
    ~Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.
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  7. #237
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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aberration View Post
    Oh you've seen it have you? For nothing? That is interesting, but hardly compelling. What have we seen happen to teachers now?
    Wow, do you always dismiss the experiences of others when they don't fit with your beliefs. Yes, I have seen more than a few teachers fired for no legitimate reason. I've seen teachers get excellent evaluations from their supervisor but be fired by the school board.
    ~Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.
    ~I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
    ~If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting?
    George Carlin

  8. #238
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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by jambalaya View Post
    Could be a tenure or policy thing. They may have had no choice as idiotic as that may be.
    Sure. But it would be less idiotic if they weren't the ones influencing such policies, including tenure.

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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Layla_Z View Post
    We do get the summer "off" and some of the vacation days the students do. We are required to work some of the days the students have off. We also work many days that we are not required to work. You could go to my school almost any day during the summer or most Saturdays and Sundays during the year and find at least a couple, if not more, teachers working.

    Expecting respect and fair pay for the work you do doesn't make someone a crybaby.
    No, you get summers off. No reason to mince words or put in quotations. There's nothing wrong with having summers off and I truly hope you enjoy them. You receive a 180 day (or so) contract, you are free to have off. And from my experience your school is an anomaly for having a couple teachers being in there most weekend days in the summer. For most schools the classrooms are unavailable to teachers during the summer because the floors are being stripped and cleaned. They are usually allowed back in a week or two before school starts and some will come in early to set up their classrooms because they don't want to spend the entire day doing it that is allotted to them at the end of summer (typically on a paid orientation day). Between orientations and other stuff going on it would make for a long day to set up the classroom as well so it is understandable to want to bang it out early. They're doing it because it makes their lives easier. Either way the work has to get done.

    Everyone deserves respect and fair pay and the average teacher receives both. You went to school for education knowing fair well what teachers made and opted to get your masters for whatever reasons you chose. That's fine, but people don't want to see teacher's complaining when they feel their local teachers make enough money.

    Let's play a game. Let's find the competitive salary your for a typical teacher making $40k a year. First step is to account for the difference in time worked. Let's use 180 days for a teacher as a baseline and the typical full time American works 270. That's a 33% difference so we'll add that off the top. That comes to a little over $53k. Now let's estimate health benefits that the tax payers are pitching in annually between now and throughout retirement. We'll pretend this number averages out to about $4k a year. Up to a little over $57k. Now let's factor in the pension that tax payers will have to pitch in and pretend this averages out to another $1.5k annually. So all in, the typical $40k teacher has a competitive salary of $59k. It's a pretty safe bet that this figure is close to if not exceeding the median household income for the school district you work for.

    Whenever I do this exercise with teachers who complain about their pay (they really love me) the first thing they tell me is that it is not fair to add 33% on top of their salaries to find their competitive wage. I respond, "Ok, if the school year is extended 20 days would you not expect to paid for those additional days?" By this point they realize they're cornered. That and the fact that they sign a contract that specifically states their salary is for only 180 days...

    Most teachers in America are paid a fair wage. If they weren't there wouldn't be such a huge flood of people becoming certified to teach. Gone are the days of teacher shortages.
    Last edited by Comfort Food; 06-18-12 at 07:05 PM.

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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Layla_Z View Post
    Why is it that you can take your experiences and apply it to all education but my experiences are dismissed? Oh wait, I know - because my experiences do prove your points. I witnessed many public schools as well, rural, urban, and suburban. I don't know how in the world my experiences to the contrary can turn into ammunition for those who don't agree. I do teach at a rural school and I'm very familiar with many of the schools around me. There are more small rural schools in this state than there are urban schools. I'm also know a great deal about larger schools in the state where the union is stronger. Of course the union affects education in this country but I don't think it is the root of all evil as some do.

    I don't know if Josie or you for that matter are good teachers in the profession for the right reasons or not. I do know that I've seen her posts for awhile and we've talked before on education and our experiences are not the same. I don't deny that her experiences are legit, they are just not like mine. I've tried to point out many times that there are vast differences across the country in education and local experiences don 't necessarily apply to what is going on everywhere. I do find it interesting that you choose to dismiss anyone whose experiences are different from your own. You sound very young. Your condension is insulting and childish.
    I'm not dismissing you. I'm saying I find it interesting that when I discuss some of the negative aspects of public unions in education you chime in and and defend them by telling me about your school district that isn't in a public union. You basically say "Well my school district isn't in a union and I have the exact opposite experience so stop attacking teachers." But that's the whole point. I'm not attacking teachers so much as discussing the effect that public unions have on education as a whole. And if your district is not in a union and you're not seeing any of the things people involved with the public unions tend to see you're essentially validating our points. Am I explaining this well?

    I'm really sorry if you think I'm dismissing you. The first sentence was stating that I "appreciated" your "refreshing" view. I'm not trying to downplay your experiences or opinions. That wasn't me being rude or sarcastic. It was a serious statement.
    Last edited by Comfort Food; 06-18-12 at 07:05 PM.

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