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Thread: Teacher of the year is laid off.

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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post
    Should we also get rid of physicians, preachers, priests, dentists,coaches, boy scout leaders, and foster parents? I think the only occupation that is safe is sheephearding but then that opens up another thread.

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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, it's because the law, NCLB, says they have no stake. The results mean nothing to them.
    That is because they were looking for a way to measure the teacher. There are other benchmark testing that holds students accountable, one off the top of my head would be the SAT. Why is it completely out of bounds to come up with a standardized method to measure teacher effectiveness?

    J, you have no real understanding of the problem. Like too many, you have listen to the uninformed and reach a mistaken conclusion.
    Joe, I have told you all too many times, I am a parent. Raised two children successfully through primary school and now in collage. How dare you look down your nose at parents that are fed up with your entitlement attitude as a teacher, and your weak ass excuse making pushing off your failures onto parents, and students rather than excelling at your own damned job. What I would say is that you are parroting the BS union line that most in your position of striving for mediocrity brings, it is transparent, and pathetic. Let me know when you decide to stop blaming 15 year olds for your failures.

    You don't really know what my job is, or how to measure my effectiveness. But that doesn't stop you running off on wild rants.
    What exactly is your job Joe? Over the years I have heard so much Bull on that particular subject that I am not sure I would believe you should you post it honestly.

    Now, the fact is teachers should be held responsibile. But you have to hold them responsibile for what they are responsible for. That is knowing their subject matter, having a clear plan to present that amterial, being open to answering questions, giving feedback, and trying to reach as many as they can.
    Too vague. Set some real parameters. All you are giving here is wishy washy mush that can't be nailed down...

    A Boxer has a coach, but when the boxer steps into the ring, the boxer is on his own. Like a boxer and a coach, the relationship between educator and student requires both.
    And the coach wouldn't last long in the boxing world if that coach was constantly blaming everyone else for his boxers losses.

    Now, as we're dealing a lot with children, parents also play a role, as does the community, and our society.
    Yeah, well good luck with that if you continue to foster an adversarial relationship.

    Somehow some of you have reduced a mult-prolbem issue down to one and only one element. Logically, this is silly.
    Nonsense, but you have to start somewhere. And by the sound of the silliness coming from you, parents have picked the correct place to start.

    j-mac
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  3. #173
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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    That is because they were looking for a way to measure the teacher. There are other benchmark testing that holds students accountable, one off the top of my head would be the SAT. Why is it completely out of bounds to come up with a standardized method to measure teacher effectiveness?

    It is not out of bounds at all. Teachers, parents, administrators, and students need to be held accountable.

    The standardized tests that are the response to NCLB are not the way to do it.

    Kids don't care what score they get on the tests. The results, then, are not reliable.
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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Parents are still ultimately to blame.

    Public education is one of the few examples where the private sector dropped the ball the public sector is being forced to pick up.

    My generation should've never become parents. It's sad to think that if I had a kid right out of high school, they'd be entering high school now. I would pity that child. He or she would be surrounded by children who are crippled by their upbringings.

    Money is not the answer to education. It never was. Attitude is.

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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    It is not out of bounds at all. Teachers, parents, administrators, and students need to be held accountable.

    The standardized tests that are the response to NCLB are not the way to do it.

    Kids don't care what score they get on the tests. The results, then, are not reliable.
    Ok fine...propose something that would be conclusive instead of just saying that won't work....

    j-mac
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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Kids don't care what score they get on the tests. The results, then, are not reliable.
    Then they would average out and you would still receive a fair sample. In fact, it's better if they don't care since that will give a more honest result for the district. They either know it or they don't. Cramming for a federal test is not the purpose of the test.

    I told a story in another thread which I believe requires repeating here. I know a young man who was a medicated ADHD B-C student from my state. His family moved to Florida nearly 15 years ago when he finished fifth grade because the parents thought the middle school he would be attending in his home state was too urban/violent for him. They get to Florida and they give him placement tests. He scored so well they scheduled him to test with the state to determine if he was a prodigy. They bumped him up only one grade level for fear of his age becoming a factor with his social growth. Imagine if the inverse were true, a student from that same school in Florida came up to his old local school district? He would have been 2+ years behind and tested for a mental or learning disability. So in one state an average kid is Doogie Howser, in the inverse he's Corky.

    The glaring question then is why should my tax dollars go to fund that failing school? When they moved down there they were told the school was up to par and was fairly decent for the area. It was a nice rural town. Why do Americans continue to piss money away on education with no accountability? If a local school district from another state wants MY money they better be damn well willing to prove they aren't pumping out handicapped children. If they are not willing to do so they should not receive my money. I do believe that the testing presents a whole host of problems, but they are policy issues than can be addressed. For example, schools who do well should not be forced to give their students the exams annually. If they only give the exams every few years or more it won't become part of the curriculum. However, if your school is not producing a kid who can read properly perhaps the best thing for them is to test them using federal standards to enforce a basic competency that the schools are obviously not providing.

    Again, these are FEDERAL funds. If the state doesn't like that a district received a federal cut in aide because they aren't educating their children properly the state can pick up the tab. Why should I?
    Last edited by Comfort Food; 06-17-12 at 05:15 PM.

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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Ok fine...propose something that would be conclusive instead of just saying that won't work....

    j-mac
    OK, here goes:

    First, we dissolve all attendance boundaries and then even out the money that each school receives. Every school gets the same $$ per student, and every parent can choose their kids' school.

    Next, form a parent/teacher committee to set standards for the individual school. Standards would include teacher performance, student performance, and behavior. Anyone who didn't like the standards or couldn't live up to them would have to find a school with lower standards.

    Next, get rid of the state, county, district bureaucracies. The job of the state could be to credential teachers and accredit schools, which would be confined to making sure that they all teach the basics. For that, they would keep 1% of the money allocated to education. The other 99% would go to the school.

    If the parents didn't like what the school was doing, how well it was performing, they would vote with their feet. Underperforming schools would close and/or open under new management just as neighborhood supermarkets that lose customers close and/or open under new management.

    Teachers and administrators would be accountable to the parents, students to the parents, and parents to see to it that their child(ren) were able to meet the standards set by the school.

    How's that?
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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    OK, here goes:

    First, we dissolve all attendance boundaries and then even out the money that each school receives. Every school gets the same $$ per student, and every parent can choose their kids' school.

    Next, form a parent/teacher committee to set standards for the individual school. Standards would include teacher performance, student performance, and behavior. Anyone who didn't like the standards or couldn't live up to them would have to find a school with lower standards.

    Next, get rid of the state, county, district bureaucracies. The job of the state could be to credential teachers and accredit schools, which would be confined to making sure that they all teach the basics. For that, they would keep 1% of the money allocated to education. The other 99% would go to the school.

    If the parents didn't like what the school was doing, how well it was performing, they would vote with their feet. Underperforming schools would close and/or open under new management just as neighborhood supermarkets that lose customers close and/or open under new management.

    Teachers and administrators would be accountable to the parents, students to the parents, and parents to see to it that their child(ren) were able to meet the standards set by the school.

    How's that?

    Actually, that is a good outline you have there...How do you think current teachers would react to this type of model? Not very well I imagine.

    j-mac
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    I found this funny (and I'm not taking sides here): Several posts back on this thread, a comment was made about a teacher giving semen-topped cookies to kids, and the first person to respond to it is named Comfort Food. :
    Last edited by The Man; 06-17-12 at 05:47 PM.

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    Re: Teacher of the year is laid off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    OK, here goes:

    First, we dissolve all attendance boundaries and then even out the money that each school receives. Every school gets the same $$ per student, and every parent can choose their kid's school.

    .... Snip ...

    How's that?
    You really can't zero out the cost per pupil. Costs aren't the same. Larger schools with more students will have less administrative overhead. Schools that are newer will have better energy efficiency. Rural schools will have increased transportation costs, etc.

    I understand where you're going with this, but I think the premise itself is a deal breaker. Unless you can take time to figure out the overall cost of overhead it would result in a disparity among schools and there won't be a fair baseline.

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