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AP sources: Immunity offered to certain immigrants

Actually, yes. While I am in favor of getting rid of illegals aliens that have criminal records, I was against essentially aiming efforts in such a way that those who do not have a criminal record were ignored especially ones who were easily identifiable. If you're here illegally and we know you're here illegally you should be getting the boot. If you want to focus more on one area or another that's one thing. However, giving carte blanche freedom of having your criminal action ignored and even beyond that being given a benefit of the state is not simply "shifting concentration". It's erasing concentration and its basically stating "I know this is against the law, however as the executive I'm simply going to choose not to enforce the law."

I've expressed the same issue with regards to fedreal marijuana laws. I'm in favor of marijuana being legalized. I think that the amount we spend on stopping people from doing something like that is RIDICULOUS. That said...it's still federal law right now and I disagree with any president just telling people "don't enforce the law". I think there's a large danger there.

Blue Laws, IE things not enforced for nearly 50+ years and have simply not been taken off the books, is one thing. However, the executive branch simply ignoring the legislative branches laws because it doesn't agree with it on things that were just within the past few years active is a different ball of wax regardless of whose doing it.

In the post I was responding to in the one you quoted me, the individual suggested that the President was okay in doing this because the Congress wouldn't pass the laws he wanted. To me that's problematic because it's basically showing the process and the notion of checks and balances as a sham and further empowers the Executive Branch beyond what it's already been empowered with; basically showing that the attempt to work through the proper process of congress is nothing but a dog and pony show and if the executive doesn't get its way then it'll just do it anyways.

Fair enough, and I agree with you in principle. But in this case it is a question of prioritizing, because there is not enough money and manpower to attack all aspects of the problem simultaneously.
 
Illegal Immigration needs to be addressed, AFTER we close off the borders with the returning military from the middle east. That has to be done first.

Right, that's like saying we should only change the drug laws AFTER we stop all illegal drugs from entering the country.

Never happen.
 
Fair enough, and I agree with you in principle. But in this case it is a question of prioritizing, because there is not enough money and manpower to attack all aspects of the problem simultaneously.

Actually, there is. What is lacking is the will.

1) Stop providing services to illegals, with the exception of emergency medical care (followed by deportation), there should be no services for illegals.
2) Do not allow licensing or diploma for illegals. No drivers or professional licenses, no college degrees or high school diplomas.
3) When caught, make them pay for their own deportation if they have the assets. In any case, upon deportation all their assets here should be frozen and then used to fund deportations, just as drug and other criminal activity seizures.
4) Provide employers with access to a DB to check status and then charge them double what it cost to deport each of their illegal employees. Post the names of the businesses that get caught harboring illegals in the local papers, sing them out on the local news (like the police blotter).
5) Enlist the aide of state's police. Give them guidelines and training and then certify them, just as we do with many other competencies within law enforcement.
6) Enforce existing law.

Do that and so many will self-deport. Take away what's in it for them here and they'll return on their own, or try some other place. Might also help if we make an announcement that we're going to do the above and any who self-deport are eligible to apply for future [legal] visa and immigration programs. The ones we catch, starting say six mionths after the announcement, will no longer be allowed to ever legally enter the US again.
 
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Actually, there is. What is lacking is the will.

1) Stop providing services to illegals, with the exception of emergency medical care (followed by deportation), there should be no services for illegals.
2) Do not allow licensing or diploma for illegals. No drivers or professional licenses, no college degrees or high school diplomas.
3) When caught, make them pay for their own deportation if they have the assets. In any case, upon deportation all their assets here should be frozen and then used to fund deportations, just as drug and other criminal activity seizures.
4) Provide employers with access to a DB to check status and then charge them double what it cost to deport each of their illegal employees. Post the names of the businesses that get caught harboring illegals in the local papers, sing them out on the local news (like the police blotter).
5) Enlist the aide of state's police. Give them guidelines and training and then certify them, just as we do with many other competencies within law enforcement.
6) Enforce existing law.

Do that and so many will self-deport. Take away what's in it for them here and they'll return on their own, or try some other place. Might also help if we make an announcement that we're going to do the above and any who self-deport are eligible to apply for future [legal] visa and immigration programs. The ones we catch, starting say six mionths after the announcement, will no longer be allowed to ever legally enter the US again.

Most of that is up to the states, not the feds, and other parts are unconstitutional.

The best way to deal with the problem is to reform the system. It would be nonsensical to creat all of these expensive, draconian measures only to turn around and obsolete them when you do reform.
 
Most of that is up to the states, not the feds, and other parts are unconstitutional.

The best way to deal with the problem is to reform the system. It would be nonsensical to creat all of these expensive, draconian measures only to turn around and obsolete them when you do reform.

That would be the reform (or the stick part of it), and nothing there is unconstitutional, in fact, most of it is law already. The only possible one you could be talking about is #2. SCOTUS ruled we have to educate them while here, not that we had to give them diplomas and degrees. In fact the SCOTUS didn't say squat about post-secondary education.
 
Your right, it is not necessarily re concentrating resources, but something different. Here is my analogy, a cop pulls you over for speeding right before the speed limit sign changes, you are cooperative, and he decides to give you a warning. Happens all the time, because it is practical and the cop realizes while the speeder broke the law sometimes discretion needs to be involved, for the good of the public.

Discretion on a case by case basis. This isn't a single cop making a decision to let someone go with a warning because of good circumstances....it's the captain telling the entire station to just ignore violations done by people driving red cars
 
Obama can see this election slipping away, deperate men do desperate things, expect one hail mary pass after another.

Foreign wars are always good for uniting the country. Iran? USA, USA, USA... Hmm...
 
Most of that is up to the states, not the feds, and other parts are unconstitutional.

.

So State do have a say in illegal immigration. Thought you always said immigration is a federal issue.
 
President Obama is not giving any of them immunity. Let's stick with the facts.
 
President Obama is not giving any of them immunity. Let's stick with the facts.

I'm pretty sure no one has been talking about immunity in this thread.
 
So process matters...unless the process doesn't go the way you want it, so then **** process?

You, sir, are exactly correct. That is why we have 3 branches of government. If the law is followed, no one person can pull off this type of power grab. To paraphrase Obama, democracy doesn't work that way. Then he sets out to prove himself a liar.

The executive order was originally intended to allow the pres to officially wish someone happy birthday without bothering Congress. Now it is used to start wars, change laws, refuse to enforce laws, or any other items the president sees fit.
 
Changing the subject? Haha, so what do you do for the ones we have educated?

I was replying to you... who mentioned educating them...

We send them back of course.
 
Legalizing illegals, who had no say in breaking the law and have been good residents, should be given citizenship.
They have little to no ties to their birth place and are effectually Americans.

It's not right to punish children, for the mistakes of their parents.

They would not be punished by being deported. They just would not be provided preferential treatment.

My father in law worked in the US since 16. Shortly after married, started having kids. My wife is the 3rd of 5, and they did not get their papers processed until she was 6. And once it was lost.

Get back in line.

If a bank robber happened to drop some bags of cash in my car running from the police, I would still be obligated to give it back. I would not be able to keep it because I did nothing to obtain it.
 
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President Obama is not giving any of them immunity. Let's stick with the facts.

He is not? He is documenting and then authorizing them to work in the US against US law.

How is that not immunity?
 
He is not? He is documenting and then authorizing them to work in the US against US law.

How is that not immunity?

Just ask one of them! It is not citizenship! You anti Obama people need to calm down and breathe . There is a big difference between the two. Simply saying he will not go after them and deport them isn't the same thing as amnesty.
 
Just ask one of them! It is not citizenship! You anti Obama people need to calm down and breathe . There is a big difference between the two. Simply saying he will not go after them and deport them isn't the same thing as amnesty.

Correct. Obama proposal does not make them a citizen. (though it could be a big step towards that).
Correct. Simply saying he will not go after them and deport them isn't the same thing as amnesty (yet the end result is the same, some illegal aliens will be allowed to stay in the US legally).

You see no timing issue with this order in an election year?
How is this order a deterent of someone crossing today with their young kids?

This order is pure political bs. Even Obama state major overall is needed. So why piece meal with this order and make the issue more complex?
 
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Correct. Obama proposal does not make them a citizen. (though it could be a big step towards that).
Correct. Simply saying he will not go after them and deport them isn't the same thing as amnesty (yet the end result is the same, some illegal aliens will be allowed to stay in the US legally).

You see no timing issue with this order in an election year?
How is this order a deterent of someone crossing today with their young kids?

This order is pure political bs. Even Obama state major overall is needed. So why piece meal with this order and make the issue more complex?
Yep I agree it was pure political move..but seeing how the do nothing congress is just sitting around President Obama figured he do the compassionate, common sense ,thing for these children of illegal immigrants I say bravo! And if congress wants to pass the dream act even better! Some of these ,"children" served in our military,own businesses , and have much to contribute to our society. Why do you think we should deport them? They did nothing wrong.
 
Why do you think we should deport them?

1.They are here illegally.
2.Not deporting them sends a message to everyone else outside the USA to come here illegally.

They did nothing wrong.

They most certainly did do wrong.They used education and services that are for citizens. Once they turned 18 they are no longer here in this country against their will,so they are flaunting the fact they are here illegally. The fact they are here illegally and flaunting that fact means the government should arrest,jail and deport their ass.
 
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Yep I agree it was pure political move..but seeing how the do nothing congress is just sitting around President Obama figured he do the compassionate, common sense ,thing for these children of illegal immigrants I say bravo! And if congress wants to pass the dream act even better! Some of these ,"children" served in our military,own businesses , and have much to contribute to our society. Why do you think we should deport them? They did nothing wrong.

It is a complex issue. The "they did nothing wrong?" is not correct. They along with the parents entered the US illegally. So should we just ignore our immigration laws? What message does it say to those that have come into the US legally? Were they stupid to follow our laws and process?

For many years the federal govt. has turned a blind eye to the illegal alien issue. What do we do with the ones that crossed the border illegally 4 years ago, 3 years ago, today? Nothing Obama has done with this order addresses the problem of those that are still entering illegally.

Yes, we need reform. Caving in is not the solution.
 
Nothing Obama has done with this order addresses the problem of those that are still entering illegally.

Yes, we need reform. Caving in is not the solution.

You realize that we're experiencing significant NEGATIVE immigration under Obama, right? And over all, Obama has increased border security and has deported more illegals relative to his predecessor.
 
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