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Thread: AP sources: Immunity offered to certain immigrants

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    Re: AP sources: Immunity offered to certain immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Yep, Reagan granted amnesty. There's really no two ways around it.

    However, that doesn't make the notion that, "OMG they supported it then 20+ years ago so ALL OF THEM, even those who couldn't even vote for Reagan back then, are hypocrites now for opposing it", any less idiotic.
    I agree with that

    Reagan did grant amnesty, with the understanding in part that there was going to be action taken to curtail future illegal immigration. Not shockingly, many of that curtailing action didn't come to fruition.
    Reagan was a politician. I seriously doubt he actually believed that anything would be done to curtail future illegal immigration. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that pouring gasoline on a fire doesn't put it out but only make it worse.If they were serious about cracking down on illegal immigration they most certainly do not need any amnesty to do it.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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    Re: AP sources: Immunity offered to certain immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Yes they are "punished" in that they lose all access to what the ill-gotten gains provided to them. In this case, the children aren't being punished by being deported, but losing the access to ill-gotten gains.
    Except that isn't true.
    You can't take away some benefits of ill gotten gains.

    The point is, many of these people were kids, were brought over as kids and have lived the majority of their lives as Americans.
    Now, because their place of birth is different and their parents broke the law, they must now lose the ability to reside in the U.S.

    I mean, I get the whole problem with general illegal immigration, but don't you think you're taking it a bit too far, by throwing out people, who are essentially Americans.
    It's dumb and you're going to far, for no practical reason.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: AP sources: Immunity offered to certain immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    So process matters...unless the process doesn't go the way you want it, so then **** process?
    Did you voice concern about the process when Obama was concentrating resources on deporting undocumented aliens with criminal records ... and thus obviously shifting resources away from deporting those without criminal records?
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: AP sources: Immunity offered to certain immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Just to be clear, this isn't being done by executive order. Granted, a rose by any other name....

    Nor, as some have suggested, is it illegal. The executive always has discretion in how a policy is implemented. In this case, the funds and mechanisms the president has to combat illegal immigration are totally insufficient to address the problem categorically, so he has to prioritize the way he approaches it. To that end, over the last few years Obama has concentrated the administration's efforts on deporting illegals with criminal records. I don't recall any Republicans objecting to that policy decision as being a breach of separation of powers.

    In this instance he has decided to shift resources away from deporting illegals who were brought here as children. Naturally that will free up resources to address other illegals.

    Clearly he is just pandering evangelicals!



    J/K. The timing of this certainly suggests that it's being done to curry favor with hispanic voters, but OTOH, it is totally consistent with Obama's long-standing support of the DREAM Act. My only question is, why didn't he do it sooner? In any case, I think it's the right thing to do and I think it will help Obama in the election.
    Bleh, I believe it's an electioneering tool.
    To get votes.

    To me, it doesn't matter, because sometimes, these things make practical sense.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: AP sources: Immunity offered to certain immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Bleh, I believe it's an electioneering tool.
    To get votes.

    To me, it doesn't matter, because sometimes, these things make practical sense.
    Meh, it's both. He needs the hispanic vote, but he has been pushing for the DREAM Act forever.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: AP sources: Immunity offered to certain immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    So process matters...unless the process doesn't go the way you want it, so then **** process?
    President's have used Executive Orders to get around issues they couldn't get passed through Congress for a long time. I don't like it anymore than the next guy, but it's an executive privlilege that only the President enjoys; his perogative when to use it and for whatever reason. The only thing WE, THE PEOPLE have to be somewhat thankful for in this regard is such orders are temporary in nature....unless through such usage the congressional leadership can be convinced to write such a measure into a bill and it becomes law.

    Last edited by Objective Voice; 06-15-12 at 05:42 PM.

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    Re: AP sources: Immunity offered to certain immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    President's have used Executive Orders to get around issues they couldn't get passed through Congress for a long time in order I don't like it anymore than the next guy, but is part of executive privlilege that only the President enjoys; his perogative when to use it and for whatever reason. The only thing WE, THE PEOPLE have to be somewhat thankful for is such orders are temporary in nature....unless through such usage the congressional leadership can be convinced to write such a measure into a bill and it becomes law.

    Again, there is no executive order here.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: AP sources: Immunity offered to certain immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    So process matters...unless the process doesn't go the way you want it, so then **** process?
    Also know as "The ends justify the means" in liberal circles.

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    Re: AP sources: Immunity offered to certain immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Didn't leave it out at all. I did state in my post that Obama's work permit measure would be by Executive Order versus Reagan's signing amnesty into law via a bill from Congress.
    Fair enough

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I do understand that process matters, but do you really think if Romney were to win the presidency wouldn't incorporate this very measure into immigration law? I think not! But again, process does matter. I'd rather see such a measure go through congressional channels as well, but the Democrats and Pres. Obama tried that and Congress rejected it. But now that a prominent Hispanic politician who happens to be the front runner for the GOP VP nomination, suddenly this route to allowing young Hispanics who were brought here by their parents and know no other country as their homeland, suddenly the GOP presidential nominee with "consider looking into it"?

    It's very doubtful the Mitt Romney would have considered this measure on his own. For him just as with Pres. Obama, this is a carrot thrown in the direction of the Hispanic vote....plain and simple. I don't disagree with it, however.
    Exactly, Romney (and Rubio) have been forced into a corner by a cynical election season ploy. Rubios answer is the best thus far, and shows some great political acumen. He basically says it's sounds like a good thing but he cannot endorse the absolutely bad way it is being done.

    I don't expect that Romney would be any different on the illegal issue than former President Bush - horrid. So, on that issue Obama and Romney are really a wash. Those on the right will just have to make the choice at election based upon other differences, other factors (just as they did with Bush whom we always knew was weak on the issue). Also, just as in the Bush years, the right will have to maintain our attention on congress to hold the line.

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    Re: AP sources: Immunity offered to certain immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Except that isn't true.
    You can't take away some benefits of ill gotten gains.

    The point is, many of these people were kids, were brought over as kids and have lived the majority of their lives as Americans.
    Now, because their place of birth is different and their parents broke the law, they must now lose the ability to reside in the U.S.

    I mean, I get the whole problem with general illegal immigration, but don't you think you're taking it a bit too far, by throwing out people, who are essentially Americans.
    It's dumb and you're going to far, for no practical reason.
    The president doesn't have the authority to stop enforcing a law, just because he doesn't like it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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