Page 7 of 27 FirstFirst ... 5678917 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 268

Thread: AP sources: Immunity offered to certain immigrants

  1. #61
    Sage
    clownboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Oregon
    Last Seen
    08-17-16 @ 10:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    26,087

    Re: AP sources: Immunity offered to certain immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    If you were brought here as an infant, never learned your home tongue, only know America.
    You're effectually not an illegal.
    No, you're just benefitting from your parents' illegality. When the FBI catches a bank robber that has been active for decades without capture, do they allow the family and his/her children to keep the proceeds of the robberies?

  2. #62
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,968

    Re: AP sources: Immunity offered to certain immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Some specifics should be done, to fix this.
    It's a complicated situation.

    Generally though, I'm referring to people who've been here for some time.
    I don't necessarily believe the parents should be legalized, just the children, who are now adults.
    They had no choice.
    That's the problem though.

    There is a lot of specifics that should and need to be done. However, whether than trying to do this through the law and going through congress the President is simply doing it by power of the executive and ignoring those things.

    Roughly 800,000 individuals supposedly are elligable for this. It is not believable to suggest that over those 800,000 somehow we would not find illegals with them that WEREN'T brought to this country while being a minor. However, based on what the Presidents said, there seems no intent to follow the law for those individuals. So while they may not be getting work permits handed to them, they're essentially being given immunity to stay as well.

    Even if you agree with the general mindset seemingly at work here...it still should be going through the proper governmental processes.

  3. #63
    Professor

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    North Dakota
    Last Seen
    09-02-17 @ 08:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    2,357

    Re: AP sources: Immunity offered to certain immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    However that's all secondary here...

    The issue is not simply the immunity to illegal immigrants, but rather the means in which this is getting done. To me, this reach of Presidential Power is the more troubling (And before cries of HYPOCRITE, I was critical to many of the reaches of executive power on Bush's end as well) part of this then simply the attempt to allow certain illegals to stay here.
    Some people care about how something is done, the process, whether it was done the "right" way. I am not sure what the legal precedent is, one way or the other. However, what I care about is results.

    From what I can see, this is a common sense measure. Because it is very pointed it will prevent us from deporting people who I think very obviously should not be deported. It would be counter productive to do so and a waste of our national resources. Therefore, I am in support of this measure by Obama.

    So if you care about how something is done, you have a point, but what I care about is what it actually accomplishes.

  4. #64
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,968

    Re: AP sources: Immunity offered to certain immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    No, you're just benefitting from your parents' illegality. When the FBI catches a bank robber that has been active for decades without capture, do they allow the family and his/her children to keep the proceeds of the robberies?
    That is kind of interesting...

    Say a family steals some money...be it from armed robbery or some kind of softer form of theft...and then goes out and uses that money to buy their child a huge gaming collection and a really nice car and some expensive clothes. If it's then found out they stole that money...do those goods that they purchased for their child become confiscated? And if so, is that not "punishing" the child by taking away something they were simply given with no knowledge that it was bought with stolen property? Or what if they used a huge chunk to pay for the kids current semester in school....should the kid continue to have his college paid for in subsequent years because it'd be "punishing" him to deny him what he was going to be recieving through illegal activity?

    I do see the situations having some significant differences but it is an interesting thought.

  5. #65
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    09-01-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,955

    Re: AP sources: Immunity offered to certain immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    No, you're just benefitting from your parents' illegality. When the FBI catches a bank robber that has been active for decades without capture, do they allow the family and his/her children to keep the proceeds of the robberies?
    Of course not, but are the kids punished for the parents choice to break the law?
    No.

    If anything, they were under duress.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  6. #66
    Sage

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Huntsville, AL (USA)
    Last Seen
    12-11-17 @ 05:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    9,763

    Re: AP sources: Immunity offered to certain immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Apples and oranges, but nice try. Reagan didn't grant amnesty - congress did. AND there was a whole lot more to that than this, it was supposed to come along with increased enforcement at the border. It was meant to wash our hands go forth and sin no more. But the securing of the border never happened.

    Now we have a POTUS who is doing it by fiat, by executive power. Without the authorization of congress. Big difference.
    If Reagan signed a bill presented to him that equated to granting amnesty to illegal immgrants, he made amnesty the law of the land. There's no getting around that.

    What Pres. Obama has proposed isn't amnesty. By executive order, he would authorize the approval of work permits to the children of illegal immigrants who:

    • Have come to the United States under the age of 16,
    • Be no older than 30,
    • Be currently enrolled in school, have graduated high school or served in the military,
    • Have been in the country for five continuous years, and
    • Have a clean criminal record.

    A temporary measure that's no different than what's been proposed in the DREAM Act, highly suggested by Mark Rubio and likely to be endorsed by Mitt Romney (only Obama got to it first).

    Obama administration won't seek deportation of young illegal immigrants - NBC Politics

    First Thoughts: Romney's half pivot - First Read

  7. #67
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,968

    Re: AP sources: Immunity offered to certain immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    Some people care about how something is done, the process, whether it was done the "right" way. I am not sure what the legal precedent is, one way or the other. However, what I care about is results.
    Curious, did you feel the same way in terms of the "results" of getting potential intelligence information of the "results" of potentially keeping dangerous combatants off the battle field based on the "process" of enhanced interrogation acts or through indefinant imprisonment for Enemy Combatants?

    I understand people who want to say the "ends justify the means". However, I want to see if this is a consistent view of if the ends only justify the means when the ends is something you desperately want and the means is something you don't like.

    You state what you care about is "what it actually accomplishes" seeming to suggest that you're universally and "ends justifies the means" guy.

  8. #68
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    09-01-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,955

    Re: AP sources: Immunity offered to certain immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    That's the problem though.

    There is a lot of specifics that should and need to be done. However, whether than trying to do this through the law and going through congress the President is simply doing it by power of the executive and ignoring those things.

    Roughly 800,000 individuals supposedly are elligable for this. It is not believable to suggest that over those 800,000 somehow we would not find illegals with them that WEREN'T brought to this country while being a minor. However, based on what the Presidents said, there seems no intent to follow the law for those individuals. So while they may not be getting work permits handed to them, they're essentially being given immunity to stay as well.

    Even if you agree with the general mindset seemingly at work here...it still should be going through the proper governmental processes.
    I agree with this.
    Not a fan of executive orders.

    This should be done through legislative means and those who are here illegally and were adults, should have something done.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  9. #69
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,968

    Re: AP sources: Immunity offered to certain immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    A temporary measure that's no different than what's been proposed in the DREAM Act, highly suggested by Mark Rubio and likely to be endorsed by Mitt Romney (only Obama got to it first).
    Yo'ure leaving out a bit of informatoin.

    The DREAM Act, suggested by Mark Rubio and endorsed by Mitt Romney follows proper legislative process.

    Obama's actions completely jump that.

    They are similar in their ends perhaps but their means are significantly different. One follows the traditional and typical manner of properly enabling such a thing. The other expands the Executive Branches power even further then it already is and does it on the power of only one branch of government, thus removing some checks and balances.

    So no, you're wrong in saying its "no different"

  10. #70
    Sage
    jamesrage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    A place where common sense exists
    Last Seen
    12-10-17 @ 09:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    31,067

    Re: AP sources: Immunity offered to certain immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    If you were brought here as an infant, snip.. only know America.
    You're effectually not an illegal.
    As long as you are in this country illegally then you will always be an illegal.It doesn't matter if you know your home tongue or not or how long you been here.

    never learned your home tongue,
    I find that hard to believe.A lot of immigrants and illegals know little to no english when coming here if thye don't come from a english speaking country.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

Page 7 of 27 FirstFirst ... 5678917 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •