"He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
- Colonel Paul YinglingNobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.
Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.
All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
Catholic, and living in a border state and having many Mexican American amigos I can state almost
all whom are here legally detest the illegals. Many whom are here legally do fairly well in the work
place but they understand the jobs their kids may need, entry level low paying jobs will now be
diluted. IMHO, this move was clearly purely political as no effort to solve border security was offered.
I don't know exactly what this amnesty covers but, how is this going to play out in terms of taxes?
Will all of these new legal aliens get a pass on years of social security payments they should have
been making? Are we adding hundreds of thousands or a million new people who will end up getting
back more taxes than they pay in producing further strain on our economic situation? It doesn't
seem like the ramifications of this were thought out very well. Right now the US needs some fiscal
leadership, not someone pandering social issues which will add to the burden we're already coming
up short on not too far down the road here. This was a slap to the face of all Americans.
But, two thoughts. First off, ICE does work heavily with state and local law enforcement. The program that Arpaio was in, for example, empowers state and local law enforcement to enforce federal immigration law. Virtually all states and cities with significant numbers of undocumented immigrants are part of that program. The ONLY person who has ever been kicked out is Arpaio. So, where you happen to live I'm sure it seems like they don't work with state and local cops, but that's just because your local sheriff is a total nutjob that flagrantly violated the constitution over and over and had to be stripped of his powers. Elect somebody sane and they'll be right back in the program no problem.
Second, I don't disagree that we need to streamline deportation. But, a big word of caution on that. What we really need to do most of all is to establish more immigration courts and get more judges confirmed as fast as possible. That's the biggest part of the cost. The immigration courts are so backlogged that people have to wait up to a year for their first appearance. Often they are sitting in jail that whole time. That is extremely costly and it is horrifically, insanely, unfair for those folks who turn out to be here legally to lose a year of their lives just because of backlog in the courts. The Republicans filibustering of every judge that comes along needs to stop. Immediately. It is costing us hundreds of millions or even billions of dollars a year just on the immigration front alone.
But, when some people talk about streamlining the process what they mean is lowering the burden of proof for people accused of being here illegally. Whenever there is any crime that society is particuarly upset about, there starts to be pressure not just to increase the penalties, but to make it easier for the government to prove that they did the crime. IMO that is always a huge mistake. For example, we have done that with sex offenders and now in some trials against sex offenders some extremely shady evidence that would never be allowed in a normal trial has to be allowed. Proof beyond a reasonable doubt has to be the standard for every crime and the standard rules of evidence needs to remain in place for every crime IMO.
People kind of assume that in an immigration trial basically you just ask the guy for his ID or green card or whatever and if he doesn't have it, that's that. But I did some volunteer work once for a service that represents undocumented immigrants and I can tell you it is usually WAY more complicated than that. Somebody was here on a work visa and they submitted their application to extend it properly and on time, but ICE lost it, and then they followed up immediately, but before ICE fixed it, they land in immigration court after a speeding ticket. Or a woman met an American man in another country, came here on a visa, married him, and he told her that now she was a citizen and she didn't know enough about our laws to realize it wasn't true. In actuality just getting married doesn't do it (altough you would think it did from popular culture). You actually have to file a form with immigration as well and if the citizen didn't do that, she's not actually a citizen. Maybe the guy didn't realize that either and he's willing to sign the form immediately. Should she be deported and blacklisted so she can't get citizenship in the future just because of that? What if she's been here for 10 years and has 3 kids here? Or, and this sadly is very common, a non-citizen marries a citizen and he refuses to file the form to make her a citizen. Instead, after they have a kid, he holds it over her head that if she disobeys him, he will turn her in to ICE and she will be deported and he will get the kids. So then he starts beating her. The Violence Against Women Act has provisions to protect victims of domestic violence in that situation, but proving it is a full fledged trial and it is pretty tough because the victims usually have battered women's syndrome and on the flip side they have a good reason to make it up. So it requires a whole lot of investigation. And so on. Those are just a few examples, but there are many more. People who claim that their estranged father was a US citizen are very tough to resolve.
Anyways, my point is that the way to make it cheaper is to spend more up front on courts so that the detention costs drop, not to just start turning it into a rubber stamp injustice machine where people are basically getting deported whenever the whim hits the government to do so.
some good points. Yet there are hundreds that come across the AZ border daily. When caught by BP and they have no proof of being a US citizen or in the US legally, they should be exported back across the border.
We also need to find a way to slow the influx of illegal crossers. If we slow the influx, we reduce the burden on the courts.
Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?
- Abraham Lincoln
Before the war is ended, the war party assumes the divine right to denounce and silence all opposition to war as unpatriotic and cowardly.
- Robert M. LaFollette, Wisconsin Governor and U.S. Senator
God, how patient are Thy poor! These corporations and masters of manipulation in finance heaping up great fortunes by a system of legalized extortion,
and then exacting from the contributors--to whom a little means so much--a double share to guard the treasure!
- Robert M. LaFollette, Wisconsin Governor and U.S. Senator
That indeed may be a possibility and if the government really wants people to get on board with this and stop hiring illegals that may be a way.
The real problem is there is a market for illegals to come here and work and as long as that market is there, it's going to be hard to get people to comply. The only way to get people to comply is to fine them heavily, however, Republicans and Democrats have been unwilling to do this for the most part. Companies need to be heavily held responsible for hiring illegals.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams
Pretty sure that Big Agriculture is in favor of letting illegal immigrants stay as long as they can.