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Thread: AP sources: Immunity offered to certain immigrants

  1. #101
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    Re: AP sources: Immunity offered to certain immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Actually, yes. While I am in favor of getting rid of illegals aliens that have criminal records, I was against essentially aiming efforts in such a way that those who do not have a criminal record were ignored especially ones who were easily identifiable. If you're here illegally and we know you're here illegally you should be getting the boot. If you want to focus more on one area or another that's one thing. However, giving carte blanche freedom of having your criminal action ignored and even beyond that being given a benefit of the state is not simply "shifting concentration". It's erasing concentration and its basically stating "I know this is against the law, however as the executive I'm simply going to choose not to enforce the law."

    I've expressed the same issue with regards to fedreal marijuana laws. I'm in favor of marijuana being legalized. I think that the amount we spend on stopping people from doing something like that is RIDICULOUS. That said...it's still federal law right now and I disagree with any president just telling people "don't enforce the law". I think there's a large danger there.

    Blue Laws, IE things not enforced for nearly 50+ years and have simply not been taken off the books, is one thing. However, the executive branch simply ignoring the legislative branches laws because it doesn't agree with it on things that were just within the past few years active is a different ball of wax regardless of whose doing it.

    In the post I was responding to in the one you quoted me, the individual suggested that the President was okay in doing this because the Congress wouldn't pass the laws he wanted. To me that's problematic because it's basically showing the process and the notion of checks and balances as a sham and further empowers the Executive Branch beyond what it's already been empowered with; basically showing that the attempt to work through the proper process of congress is nothing but a dog and pony show and if the executive doesn't get its way then it'll just do it anyways.
    Fair enough, and I agree with you in principle. But in this case it is a question of prioritizing, because there is not enough money and manpower to attack all aspects of the problem simultaneously.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

  2. #102
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    Re: AP sources: Immunity offered to certain immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post
    Illegal Immigration needs to be addressed, AFTER we close off the borders with the returning military from the middle east. That has to be done first.
    Right, that's like saying we should only change the drug laws AFTER we stop all illegal drugs from entering the country.

    Never happen.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: AP sources: Immunity offered to certain immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Fair enough, and I agree with you in principle. But in this case it is a question of prioritizing, because there is not enough money and manpower to attack all aspects of the problem simultaneously.
    Actually, there is. What is lacking is the will.

    1) Stop providing services to illegals, with the exception of emergency medical care (followed by deportation), there should be no services for illegals.
    2) Do not allow licensing or diploma for illegals. No drivers or professional licenses, no college degrees or high school diplomas.
    3) When caught, make them pay for their own deportation if they have the assets. In any case, upon deportation all their assets here should be frozen and then used to fund deportations, just as drug and other criminal activity seizures.
    4) Provide employers with access to a DB to check status and then charge them double what it cost to deport each of their illegal employees. Post the names of the businesses that get caught harboring illegals in the local papers, sing them out on the local news (like the police blotter).
    5) Enlist the aide of state's police. Give them guidelines and training and then certify them, just as we do with many other competencies within law enforcement.
    6) Enforce existing law.

    Do that and so many will self-deport. Take away what's in it for them here and they'll return on their own, or try some other place. Might also help if we make an announcement that we're going to do the above and any who self-deport are eligible to apply for future [legal] visa and immigration programs. The ones we catch, starting say six mionths after the announcement, will no longer be allowed to ever legally enter the US again.
    Last edited by clownboy; 06-15-12 at 07:10 PM.

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    Re: AP sources: Immunity offered to certain immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Actually, there is. What is lacking is the will.

    1) Stop providing services to illegals, with the exception of emergency medical care (followed by deportation), there should be no services for illegals.
    2) Do not allow licensing or diploma for illegals. No drivers or professional licenses, no college degrees or high school diplomas.
    3) When caught, make them pay for their own deportation if they have the assets. In any case, upon deportation all their assets here should be frozen and then used to fund deportations, just as drug and other criminal activity seizures.
    4) Provide employers with access to a DB to check status and then charge them double what it cost to deport each of their illegal employees. Post the names of the businesses that get caught harboring illegals in the local papers, sing them out on the local news (like the police blotter).
    5) Enlist the aide of state's police. Give them guidelines and training and then certify them, just as we do with many other competencies within law enforcement.
    6) Enforce existing law.

    Do that and so many will self-deport. Take away what's in it for them here and they'll return on their own, or try some other place. Might also help if we make an announcement that we're going to do the above and any who self-deport are eligible to apply for future [legal] visa and immigration programs. The ones we catch, starting say six mionths after the announcement, will no longer be allowed to ever legally enter the US again.
    Most of that is up to the states, not the feds, and other parts are unconstitutional.

    The best way to deal with the problem is to reform the system. It would be nonsensical to creat all of these expensive, draconian measures only to turn around and obsolete them when you do reform.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

  5. #105
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    Re: AP sources: Immunity offered to certain immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Most of that is up to the states, not the feds, and other parts are unconstitutional.

    The best way to deal with the problem is to reform the system. It would be nonsensical to creat all of these expensive, draconian measures only to turn around and obsolete them when you do reform.
    That would be the reform (or the stick part of it), and nothing there is unconstitutional, in fact, most of it is law already. The only possible one you could be talking about is #2. SCOTUS ruled we have to educate them while here, not that we had to give them diplomas and degrees. In fact the SCOTUS didn't say squat about post-secondary education.

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    Re: AP sources: Immunity offered to certain immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    Your right, it is not necessarily re concentrating resources, but something different. Here is my analogy, a cop pulls you over for speeding right before the speed limit sign changes, you are cooperative, and he decides to give you a warning. Happens all the time, because it is practical and the cop realizes while the speeder broke the law sometimes discretion needs to be involved, for the good of the public.
    Discretion on a case by case basis. This isn't a single cop making a decision to let someone go with a warning because of good circumstances....it's the captain telling the entire station to just ignore violations done by people driving red cars

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    Re: AP sources: Immunity offered to certain immigrants

    Obama can see this election slipping away, deperate men do desperate things, expect one hail mary pass after another.

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    Re: AP sources: Immunity offered to certain immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Obama can see this election slipping away, deperate men do desperate things, expect one hail mary pass after another.
    Foreign wars are always good for uniting the country. Iran? USA, USA, USA... Hmm...
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: AP sources: Immunity offered to certain immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Foreign wars are always good for uniting the country. Iran? USA, USA, USA... Hmm...
    Shhhh, you'll spoil the October surprise.

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    Re: AP sources: Immunity offered to certain immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Most of that is up to the states, not the feds, and other parts are unconstitutional.

    .
    So State do have a say in illegal immigration. Thought you always said immigration is a federal issue.

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