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Thread: North Dakota voters to decide on abolishing property tax

  1. #21
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    Re: North Dakota voters to decide on abolishing property tax

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    I pay my prop tax to the state, that's who the check is written out to. In a state like ND that has more money coming in than it knows what to do with I would be for aboloshing prop taxes but apparently I am in the minority, as usual. LOL
    Yeah, you are in the minority because most property taxes are paid to the county.

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    Re: North Dakota voters to decide on abolishing property tax

    North Dakota voters reject measure to abolish property taxes - NBC Politics

    North Dakota voters on Tuesday soundly rejected a ballot measure that sought to make the oil-rich state the first to abolish property taxes, a move critics said would have undermined local governments and forced an increase in taxes overall.

    The measure, which would have required state lawmakers to come up with a way to replace $812 million in lost property tax revenues for 2012 alone, was defeated by a vote of 77.5 percent to 22.5 percent, with 70 percent of precincts reporting.

    A varied coalition organized opposition to the measure, including the North Dakota Chamber of Commerce, which said it was looking for "broad based" reform of personal income, corporate and sales taxes as well as property taxes.
    Last edited by Hikertrash; 06-13-12 at 05:42 PM.

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    Yup. I was glad when it was defeated
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    Re: North Dakota voters to decide on abolishing property tax

    Anyone who has actually been to the oil boomtowns in ND would realize that the local governments are way behind trying to create the infrastructure, emergency services, schools, housing, etc to support the boom. I have heard estimates that the boom could be twice as big in areas like Williston and Watford City if the infrastructure would be there to support it. This would just drain already struggling communities trying to cope with the huge population influx, truck traffic, spikes in crime, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hikertrash View Post
    Yeah, you are in the minority because most property taxes are paid to the county.
    Actually, the bulk of my property taxes are paid to my school district (we don't have a county-wide school district where I live, there are 16 separate school districts in my county), and a separate, much lower, property tax bill goes to the county, and another separate, even lower tax bill goes to the township. So, I have three annual property tax bills, and yes, not one of them goes to the state. I'm not calling sawyerloggingon a liar, some places do property tax collection differently, but sending real estate property taxes to the state is something I've never heard of.
    Last edited by The Man; 06-13-12 at 06:25 PM.

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    Re: North Dakota voters to decide on abolishing property tax

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    Anyone who has actually been to the oil boomtowns in ND would realize that the local governments are way behind trying to create the infrastructure, emergency services, schools, housing, etc to support the boom. I have heard estimates that the boom could be twice as big in areas like Williston and Watford City if the infrastructure would be there to support it. This would just drain already struggling communities trying to cope with the huge population influx, truck traffic, spikes in crime, etc.
    Indeed, and it's nice to see another fellow Nodak around here. Hell you don't even have to be really near it to see the changes.

    Interstate travel is much busier, the surrounding communities have a housing/apartment shortage (in Bismarck it is hard to find an apartment, although rates have not risen), the boom towns have an almost impossible situation for those who are not home owners, where you can't afford rent or find an apartment because of the out-of-staters working the oil fields that came in making much larger salaries. It's almost as if to say that if you aren't a part of that boom industry, you can piss off. Local universities and colleges have an influx of new settlers who take a couple of courses in order to satisfy student housing requirements, yet fall asleep in class and purposefully say to Professors that they don't give a damn about the class. A guy I know closed his own liquor establishment and moved to another town because neighboring stores were being bought out like mad, creating a situation that he said was a "rat race." Essentially, you have a boom that has uprooted the North Dakota way of life and has pulled the rug out of folks that have been in the area for decades, causing them to relocate.

    The weird thing about the crime stuff is that North Dakotans can be somewhat prejudiced against the new settlers, because there's so many of them. Indeed, the interstates and highways are littered with piss-filled soda bottles and other garbage, and with more folks comes more crime, especially in desperate times for housing. Yet, there was a case where people assumed it was outsiders that were the cause of a murder (murders are not especially common in this state), but we discovered they were a couple of local guys instead.

    So while free-market conservatives can look at North Dakota with pride, social conservatives and traditionalists have cause for concern.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 06-13-12 at 09:52 PM.
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    Re: North Dakota voters to decide on abolishing property tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Indeed, and it's nice to see another fellow Nodak around here. Hell you don't even have to be really near it to see the changes.

    Interstate travel is much busier, the surrounding communities have a housing/apartment shortage (in Bismarck it is hard to find an apartment, although rates have not risen), the boom towns have an almost impossible situation for those who are not home owners, where you can't afford rent or find an apartment because of the out-of-staters working the oil fields that came in making much larger salaries. It's almost as if to say that if you aren't a part of that boom industry, you can piss off. Local universities and colleges have an influx of new settlers who take a couple of courses in order to satisfy student housing requirements, yet fall asleep in class and purposefully say to Professors that they don't give a damn about the class. A guy I know closed his own liquor establishment and moved to another town because neighboring stores were being bought out like mad, creating a situation that he said was a "rat race." Essentially, you have a boom that has uprooted the North Dakota way of life and has pulled the rug out of folks that have been in the area for decades, causing them to relocate.

    The weird thing about the crime stuff is that North Dakotans can be somewhat prejudiced against the new settlers, because there's so many of them. Indeed, the interstates and highways are littered with piss-filled soda bottles and other garbage, and with more folks comes more crime, especially in desperate times for housing. Yet, there was a case where people assumed it was outsiders that were the cause of a murder (murders are not especially common in this state), but we discovered they were a couple of local guys instead.

    So while free-market conservatives can look at North Dakota with pride, social conservatives and traditionalists have cause for concern.
    Haha, ya you will probably hate me then. I am one of those "out of staters" who just got a job up there in the oil industry around Williston. It is a great opportunity that I could not pass up, great pay, benefits, and of course you gain more experience there than anywhere in the country because of the shear volume of work to be done.

    However, I can completely understand why the locals are upset, or at least feeling the boom is a little bittersweet. On the one hand the boom has brought tons of money, new jobs, and new opportunities to the region; but it has also come about so fast that it has really turned western ND upside down. I will be flat honest, the truck traffic through Williston is ridiculous. If you come from an oilfield town you might understand what it could be like, but even then it is more than I have ever seen. And it is really dangerous driving around since the roads are not built for the amount of traffic in the area.

    And of course with the oil patch comes all of the "trash" that comes along with it. It is really a "dirty" boom, and the housing crisis has really exacerbated it. If you dont get hired by one of the bigger outfits in the area (baker, halliburton, schlumberger, etc) that will provide lodging, it is really hard for those hired by the oil companies to find a place to live. Its a saftey hazard, eyesore, and bad PR all the way around. With time and lots of investment it will get better, as everything else will have a chance to get caught up with the oil industry, but for now there are serious "growing pains" in western ND.

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    Re: North Dakota voters to decide on abolishing property tax

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    I pay my prop tax to the state, that's who the check is written out to. In a state like ND that has more money coming in than it knows what to do with I would be for aboloshing prop taxes but apparently I am in the minority, as usual. LOL

    I have always resented how the state owns my property, if I don't pay tax on it they sieze it. Complete BS if you ask me. If a man can't own his land then he owns nothing. Freedom is an illusion.
    What state are you talking about now? I have seen you post as being in WA, profile indicates Idaho and now you are implying ND. Are you driving a truck or what? ;-)
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    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: North Dakota voters to decide on abolishing property tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    We don't have more money than we know what to do with. We have a massive infrastructure problem as a result of the floods and the boom. A Few years ago, I and A majority of the state voted on a measure to have a rainy day fund that would be very difficult to tap into. We have many groups that proclaim they need more funds, flood relief, road construction, a huge housing problem, and anything else you could possibly imagine that would proceed a massive economic and population shift in a state that 10 years ago was concerned its young would leave the state for better opportunities in nearly every field. Consider the fact that we have moved past our peak population of 680k that was set before the aftermath of the Great depression and decreasing farm land.Thereafter we had steadily lost population. North Dakota is changing rapidly and we are trying to keep up, and we aren't doing so hot on that front.

    The property tax removal campaign was an older movement preceding the boom. This time around it just used the boom for justification. It would solve very little and would have created more havoc than it was worth and would end up harming more than making better, as the revenues would have to come through other directions that are neither gurqnteed to remain constant and could do more damage to our wallets than otherwise. Minnesota was bragging about the possibility of benefitting from North Dakota's possible move away from property taxes.
    ND is pulling in tons of tax money, where is it going? Interesting to hear from a ND resident on prop tax thing, thanks.

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    Re: North Dakota voters to decide on abolishing property tax

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    What state are you talking about now? I have seen you post as being in WA, profile indicates Idaho and now you are implying ND. Are you driving a truck or what? ;-)
    I own land in Washington and Idaho.

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