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Texas Dad Beats Daughter's Molester to Death: Cops

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Sheriff: Father kills man sexually abusing his daughter

(CNN) -- A Texas father caught a man sexually assaulting his 4-year-old daughter and punched him in the head repeatedly, killing him, authorities said.The father was casually acquainted with the alleged abuser, said Lavaca County Sheriff Micah Harmon.Neither has been publicly identified.The girl was left inside the family's house during the social gathering, while other members of her family were tending to horses, the sheriff said.The alleged abuser was known for his horse-grooming abilities, Harmon said.

Sheriff: Father kills man sexually abusing his daughter - CNN.com


Damn. Hard to blame the guy. But I have to wonder if he will eventually get charged. Being that it is Texas, I would guess not.
 
Re: Sheriff: Father kills man sexually abusing his daughter

This is a tricky situation. On the one hand, I'd probably do the same thing. On the other, people should be accountable for their actions. This guy killed someone, and he probably ought to be charged. That kind of sucks, but it's probably what should happen.
 
Re: Sheriff: Father kills man sexually abusing his daughter

According to the sheriff "You have a right to defend your daughter. He acted in defense of his third person." I believe using lethal force in defense of the 3rd person is legal in Texas and many other states.

http://law.onecle.com/texas/penal/9.33.00.html

§ 9.33. DEFENSE OF THIRD PERSON. A person is justified in
using force or deadly force against another to protect a third
person if:
(1) under the circumstances as the actor reasonably
believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.31
or 9.32 in using force or deadly force to protect himself against
the unlawful force or unlawful deadly force he reasonably believes
to be threatening the third person he seeks to protect; and
(2) the actor reasonably believes that his
intervention is immediately necessary to protect the third person.
 
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Re: Sheriff: Father kills man sexually abusing his daughter

According to the sheriff "You have a right to defend your daughter. He acted in defense of his third person." I believe using lethal force in defense of the 3rd person is legal in Texas and many other states.

Texas Penal Code - Section 9.33. Defense Of Third Person - Texas Attorney Resources - Texas Laws

§ 9.33. DEFENSE OF THIRD PERSON. A person is justified in
using force or deadly force against another to protect a third
person if:
(1) under the circumstances as the actor reasonably
believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.31
or 9.32 in using force or deadly force to protect himself against
the unlawful force or unlawful deadly force he reasonably believes
to be threatening the third person he seeks to protect; and
(2) the actor reasonably believes that his
intervention is immediately necessary to protect the third person.

Defense of a third person applies everywhere if it is the only way to save the life of a third person. But, it gets a lot trickier if the third person's life isn't in immediate peril. Some states only allow you to respond with deadly force if there is a threat to life or limb. Some places you can use deadly force to prevent the sexual assault of yourself or a third person if there is no other way to stop it. But, we don't know that he had no other way to stop it. If he could have stopped it with something short of deadly force, then that raises other questions. In many states, if you are the victim of a sexual assault and you kill your attacker even if you could have stopped them another way, it isn't self defense, but it is justifiable homicide or some other defense. In some of the states that allow that, they also allow the same for your spouse. And then in some of those states, they also allow some variant of a justifiable homicide defense for your children or immediate family. Texas tends towards the whole cowboy justice thing, so odds are that they allow all of those things. In most states you'd need to show that it was the only way you could stop it.

Regardless of what the law is though, my heart goes out to the guy. And, in reality, regardless of what the law is, a jury won't convict him for doing it. If the story really is that simple- he walked in on a guy raping his four year old and he killed him- the jury will find some argument in his defense to cling on to. Unless there are some fishy circumstances like the dad had been talking about how he was going to kill the alleged rapist over a gambling debt, or there is a question as to whether the assault actually occurred or something anyways.
 
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Re: Sheriff: Father kills man sexually abusing his daughter

According to the sheriff "You have a right to defend your daughter. He acted in defense of his third person." I believe using lethal force in defense of the 3rd person is legal in Texas and many other states.

Texas Penal Code - Section 9.33. Defense Of Third Person - Texas Attorney Resources - Texas Laws

§ 9.33. DEFENSE OF THIRD PERSON. A person is justified in
using force or deadly force against another to protect a third
person if:
(1) under the circumstances as the actor reasonably
believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.31
or 9.32 in using force or deadly force to protect himself against
the unlawful force or unlawful deadly force he reasonably believes
to be threatening the third person he seeks to protect; and
(2) the actor reasonably believes that his
intervention is immediately necessary to protect the third person.

The only issue I can imagine prosecutors having is the method, i.e. beating him to death, but imo, that sick piece of **** got off easy compared to what he deserved. A 4 year old girl? Jesus ****ing Christ. I'll support any law that allows the execution of convicted child rapists.
 
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Re: Sheriff: Father kills man sexually abusing his daughter

What he did was nothing compared to what I would do to someone who hurt one of my babies.

I'm with you there sister.

I'd make the bastard wish he'd never been born.

Can't fault the guy for what he did.
 
Re: Sheriff: Father kills man sexually abusing his daughter

a righteous kill.... kudos to the pops
 
Re: Sheriff: Father kills man sexually abusing his daughter

According to the sheriff "You have a right to defend your daughter. He acted in defense of his third person." I believe using lethal force in defense of the 3rd person is legal in Texas and many other states.

Texas Penal Code - Section 9.33. Defense Of Third Person - Texas Attorney Resources - Texas Laws

§ 9.33. DEFENSE OF THIRD PERSON. A person is justified in
using force or deadly force against another to protect a third
person if:
(1) under the circumstances as the actor reasonably
believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.31
or 9.32 in using force or deadly force to protect himself against
the unlawful force or unlawful deadly force he reasonably believes
to be threatening the third person he seeks to protect; and
(2) the actor reasonably believes that his
intervention is immediately necessary to protect the third person.

That's the baseline, yes, but it doesn't necessarily cover what this guy did. Once he got to the point where his daughter is no longer in physical danger he didn't really have any legally defensible right to continue to beat the guy. Don't get me wrong, the guy deserved a beating, but it wasn't necessarily lawful.
 
Re: Sheriff: Father kills man sexually abusing his daughter

I have heard of similar murder cases and its always sad to see. The father cannot be charged with premeditated murder, it will probably be classified as a passion killing/emotions took over in the moment. But he will more than like go to prison for a few years. I feel really bad for the little girl. She has to lose her father because of all of this now. I really hope the father gets psychological help as well as the daughter. Being in prison can really screw somebody up.
 
Re: Sheriff: Father kills man sexually abusing his daughter

What he did was nothing compared to what I would do to someone who hurt one of my babies.

I'm with you there sister.

I'd make the bastard wish he'd never been born.

Can't fault the guy for what he did.

It's hard to fault him. But at the same time, if you go to prison for killing the abuser, you can't be involved with your child's healing process personally or on a daily basis. I think it's normal for a parent to want to harm somebody whom harms their child. But when the parent is in prison, I think it's equally normal that they wish they weren't there. They probably wish they were with their child protecting them or even calming them down at 2 am when they have nightmares.
 
Re: Sheriff: Father kills man sexually abusing his daughter

Again, not all the facts are known yet. But IF this happened as has been reported so far, the father isn't going to go to prison. Let's see what the grand jury decides.
 
Re: Sheriff: Father kills man sexually abusing his daughter

It's hard to fault him. But at the same time, if you go to prison for killing the abuser, you can't be involved with your child's healing process personally or on a daily basis. I think it's normal for a parent to want to harm somebody whom harms their child. But when the parent is in prison, I think it's equally normal that they wish they weren't there. They probably wish they were with their child protecting them or even calming them down at 2 am when they have nightmares.

It is a good point and speaks to human falibility.

Logically you're right.

Emotionally of course we get overwhelmed.
 
Re: Sheriff: Father kills man sexually abusing his daughter

It is a good point and speaks to human falibility.

Logically you're right.

Emotionally of course we get overwhelmed.

No doubt. My heart totally goes out to the guy. I'd probably do the same thing in that situation and I hope he doesn't face legal repercussions for doing it. And realistically, I'm sure he won't. Or, at most, he'll get a slap on the wrist. But as you point out, SheWolf is right. We shouldn't idealize this guy, we should sympathize with him and prepare ourselves to do better if, god forbid, we're ever in that situation. Pulling the guy off, beating him to within an inch of his life, but not past that point, and making sure he faces the full consequences of the law would ultimately be a better outcome. Frankly, it'd probably be worse for him that way. Child rapists face 20 years of extraordinary torture in prison. Maybe that's even a fate worse than death. Say what you will about inmates, they make sure guys like that get what's coming to them and then some.
 
Re: Sheriff: Father kills man sexually abusing his daughter

That's the baseline, yes, but it doesn't necessarily cover what this guy did. Once he got to the point where his daughter is no longer in physical danger he didn't really have any legally defensible right to continue to beat the guy. Don't get me wrong, the guy deserved a beating, but it wasn't necessarily lawful.

You cannot assume the man went too far in defense of his daughter. It's an absurd position. There should be no doubt in the mans mind of his actions defending her. In a scenario like this, if there is no way to prove he went too far, assume he didn't.
 
Re: Sheriff: Father kills man sexually abusing his daughter

Legally speaking, I am against the death penalty, even for the worst offenders. As an individual, I likely would have done the same thing this father did. There are certain emotions that just plain overrule everything else.

I don’t know enough details to know if the act was justified. I mean, if the guy was knocked unconscious and no longer posed a risk, and the father continued to beat him with the intent to kill him, it could be argued he used excessive force. Once again, I’m not saying I wouldn’t have done any different. I am sure his compromised emotional state would be taken into account and whatever the prosecutor does or doesn’t do, I can’t see a jury convicting the guy.
 
Re: Sheriff: Father kills man sexually abusing his daughter

Sheriff: Father kills man sexually abusing his daughter - CNN.com


Damn. Hard to blame the guy. But I have to wonder if he will eventually get charged. Being that it is Texas, I would guess not.

punched him in the head repeatedly, killing him, authorities said.

Those who do not believe that punching someone repeatedly in the head won't kill him....or do serious bodily harm

Think again. Punches/fist to the head...KILL
 
Re: Sheriff: Father kills man sexually abusing his daughter

Child rapists face 20 years of extraordinary torture in prison.

Well that would depend on where he gets put.

I know a girl who was raped by her Stepfather from the time she was 7-11 and he's been put away pretty much for life but he's been put in a special ward with other sex offenders.
 
Re: Sheriff: Father kills man sexually abusing his daughter

No doubt. My heart totally goes out to the guy. I'd probably do the same thing in that situation and I hope he doesn't face legal repercussions for doing it. And realistically, I'm sure he won't. Or, at most, he'll get a slap on the wrist. But as you point out, SheWolf is right. We shouldn't idealize this guy, we should sympathize with him and prepare ourselves to do better if, god forbid, we're ever in that situation. Pulling the guy off, beating him to within an inch of his life, but not past that point, and making sure he faces the full consequences of the law would ultimately be a better outcome. Frankly, it'd probably be worse for him that way. Child rapists face 20 years of extraordinary torture in prison. Maybe that's even a fate worse than death. Say what you will about inmates, they make sure guys like that get what's coming to them and then some.

I read about a somebody sentenced to prison for doing this very thing. He killed the abuser after the abuser was not convicted based on insufficient evidence, so that might make a difference... but it's hard to tell.
 
That's the baseline, yes, but it doesn't necessarily cover what this guy did. Once he got to the point where his daughter is no longer in physical danger he didn't really have any legally defensible right to continue to beat the guy. Don't get me wrong, the guy deserved a beating, but it wasn't necessarily lawful.

Well, we don't really know what happened. There are people who fall, bump there head on a wood floor in just the right place, and just die. For all we know the guy just landed a strong enough blow in the right place. Or, possibly, he beat the piss out of the guy for an hour. That's an option too.

But either way, there's a problem with siding with the technical wording of the law here. In the moment, when someone is raping your daughter, or your partner, or you, or trying to kill you, or whatever else, when the hell do you know they're no longer a threat? When do you know someone capable of that much evil is no longer a threat?

As far as I'm concerned, I'm not willing to take that chance until they're no longer showing any ability to move. And I think anyone with an intact sense of fight or flight would think the same. In reality, the "no longer able to move" standard is where a lot of people stop, because it's the only time it makes sense to stop.

All this legalise is great in the theoretical, but in real life, how do you say to someone who's just been violently attacked, or watched someone they love who is defenseless get attacked, "you really should have stopped once he was no longer actively raping her?"

You don't, because that's insane. If someone like that is still standing, or in any way capable of standing or even crawling, they're still a threat to anyone with half an ounce of sense in their head. He could have attacked the father. He could have taken the girl hostage. These are all things he could still do when he was no longer actively raping her, and therefore "not an immediate threat."

You can say that doesn't hold up in law, and maybe in a technical sense that's true, but in reality people frequently face no charges for doing something that's technically illegal because the law frankly makes no sense in the real world, with the way real people are wired to behave in these situations, with the way predators are in the real world.

Someone who is capable of raping a 4-year-old is capable of just about anything, and you'd have to be an idiot or just as big of a psycho yourself to stop short of "no longer capable of moving." People know that, even if the law doesn't.

Telling someone they should stop shy of well and truly laying someone out is telling them that they should sacrifice their own safety or those of their loved ones in order to mitigate the risk of harm to a violent predator. Talk about having ones priorities mixed up.
 
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Re: Sheriff: Father kills man sexually abusing his daughter

Well, we don't really know what happened. There are people who fall, bump there head on a wood floor in just the right place, and just die. For all we know the guy just landed a strong enough blow in the right place. Or, possibly, he beat the piss out of the guy for an hour. That's an option too.

But either way, there's a problem with siding with the technical wording of the law here. In the moment, when someone is raping your daughter, or your partner, or you, or trying to kill you, or whatever else, when the hell do you know they're no longer a threat? When do you know someone capable of that much evil is no longer a threat?

As far as I'm concerned, I'm not willing to take that chance until they're no longer showing any ability to move. And I think anyone with an intact sense of fight or flight would think the same. In reality, the "no longer able to move" standard is where a lot of people stop, because it's the only time it makes sense to stop.

All this legalise is great in the theoretical, but in real life, how do you say to someone who's just been violently attacked, or watched someone they love who is defenseless get attacked, "you really should have stopped once he was no longer actively raping her?"

You don't, because that's insane. If someone like that is still standing, or in any way capable of standing or even crawling, they're still a threat to anyone with half an ounce of sense in their head. He could have attacked the father. He could have taken the girl hostage. These are all things he could still do when he was no longer actively raping her, and therefore "not an immediate threat."

You can say that doesn't hold up in law, and maybe in a technical sense that's true, but in reality people frequently face no charges for doing something that's technically illegal because the law frankly makes no sense in the real world, with the way real people are wired to behave in these situations, with the way predators are in the real world.

Someone who is capable of raping a 4-year-old is capable of just about anything, and you'd have to be an idiot or just as big of a psycho yourself to stop short of "no longer capable of moving." People know that, even if the law doesn't.

Telling someone they should stop shy of well and truly laying someone out is telling them that they should sacrifice their own safety or those of their loved ones in order to mitigate the risk of harm to a violent predator. Talk about having ones priorities mixed up.

I agree with everything you said.

I hate the notion that someone might hesitate in a situation like this on fear of "going too far." When it comes to something like this, "going too far" is until you feel the individual is no longer a threat.

Unless some evidence comes up that shows otherwise, assume the man did it because he felt that it was the only way to keep him and his daughter safe.
 
Re: Sheriff: Father kills man sexually abusing his daughter

I read about a somebody sentenced to prison for doing this very thing. He killed the abuser after the abuser was not convicted based on insufficient evidence, so that might make a difference... but it's hard to tell.

yeah.. you aren't justified in employing lethal force ( or any force) months or years later against the perp.. it's no longer a defense issue when you do that.
it's undoubtedly the difference
 
Re: Sheriff: Father kills man sexually abusing his daughter

I read about a somebody sentenced to prison for doing this very thing. He killed the abuser after the abuser was not convicted based on insufficient evidence, so that might make a difference... but it's hard to tell.

You can't at all see the difference between the two scenarios? One is a calculated act of revenge, the other is an in the moment outcome.
 
Re: Sheriff: Father kills man sexually abusing his daughter

A Texas father caught a man sexually assaulting his 4-year-old

This little bit right here is enough for me to let the father go if I was on the jury. This act (child rape) is the WORST possible thing anyone could EVER do imo. And if he does get convicted of some crime or other because of this I would implore the governor to give the guy a full pardon. Not only because he did the right thing imo but also because his daughter will need him far more than some screwed up law that doesn't protect a parent in this kind of situation.

For the father all I can say is...

:applaud :applaud :applaud :applaud :applaud
 
Re: Sheriff: Father kills man sexually abusing his daughter

Defense of a third person applies everywhere if it is the only way to save the life of a third person. But, it gets a lot trickier if the third person's life isn't in immediate peril. Some states only allow you to respond with deadly force if there is a threat to life or limb. Some places you can use deadly force to prevent the sexual assault of yourself or a third person if there is no other way to stop it.
Wouldn't someone sexually abusing a girl count as sexual assault?
 
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