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Florida sues Homeland Security over state voter purge

Prof. Peabody

Prof. Peabody

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Florida sues Homeland Security over state voter purge

By Kim Geiger

June 11, 2012, 3:18 p.m.

WASHINGTON -- Refusing to back away from its controversial plan to purge voter rolls before the presidential election, the Florida Department of State on Monday filed a lawsuit against the U.S. Department of Homeland Security for failing to assist the state in its efforts to identify noncitizens who are registered to vote.

The state had asked Homeland Security for access to the SAVE database, but the department has not cooperated, so the rolls instead have been compared against the state’s driver’s license database. Homeland Security argues that the SAVE database is not designed to be compared against voter registration rolls and that it does not contain information about citizens born in the United States.

Florida sues Homeland Security over state voter purge - latimes.com
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I was listening to Rick Scott on the radio, he said as many as 182,000 registered voters who may not be U.S. citizens. Janet Incompitano appears to be stonewalling on the SAVE database like Holder on Fast & Furious. Didn't Obama promise transparency with his administration? 182,000 votes could be an election changer in any close race.
 
Good for Scott. Denial of access to the SAVE Database appears to be politically motivated, not legally motivated:
Last week, Florida Secretary of State Ken Detzner wrote to the Justice Department saying the state was not in violation of federal law, but that the Obama administration appeared to be.
“By denying Florida access to the SAVE database, DHS appears to have violated federal law, which provides that states may use the SAVE database ‘for any legal purpose such as … voter registration,’” the letter stated.

Read more: Florida voter purge fight escalates - POLITICO.com
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OTOH, I do not support Gov. Scott's zealousness in purging legal voters along with illegal ones. This too appears to be more politically motivated than legally motivated.
 
Rising Sun said:
Good for Scott. Denial of access to the SAVE Database appears to be politically motivated, not legally motivated:


OTOH, I do not support Gov. Scott's zealousness in purging legal voters along with illegal ones. This too appears to be more politically motivated than legally motivated.
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Having one legal citizens vote negated by the voter fraud of an illegal voter is simply unacceptable. American citizens have the right to expect their votes being heard at the ballot box, not being canceled out by voter fraud.
 
Prof. Peabody said:
Having one legal citizens vote negated by the voter fraud of an illegal voter is simply unacceptable. American citizens have the right to expect their votes being heard at the ballot box, not being canceled out by voter fraud.
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Agreed. Completely unacceptable. The Scott administration should have been more thorough in their purging of the rolls. It is as unacceptable as saying "Imprisoning or executing a couple of innocents in order to ensure all the guilty are convicted is okay."
 
How many more threads do we need discussing the FL voter purge issue?

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...eds-florida-halt-non-citizen-voter-purge.html

http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-el...ry-purge-180-000-voters-before-elections.html

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...tate-we-won-t-resume-voter-purge-program.html

I have no problem with FL or any other state purging their voter registration files as long as in so doing they DON'T discard authentic (legal) registered voters. To that, the question clearly is has Florida's elected officials (specifically, their Governor) gone about purging their voter registration records the right way under state and federal law? Seems to me the answer is a resounding NO!
 
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Rising Sun said:
Good for Scott. Denial of access to the SAVE Database appears to be politically motivated, not legally motivated:


OTOH, I do not support Gov. Scott's zealousness in purging legal voters along with illegal ones. This too appears to be more politically motivated than legally motivated.
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The problem is he cannot find out if his information is correct or incorrect without the DHS illegals database. Hence the reason they are criticizing it is because of the information they are witholding.
 
Objective Voice said:
I have no problem with FL or any other state purging their voter registration files as long as in so doing they DON'T discard authentic (legal) registered voters. To that, the question clearly is has Florida's elected officials gone about purging their voter registration records the right way under state and federal law? Seems to me the answer is a resounding NO!
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Agreed. This particular thread is slightly different in that it appears it is DHS (and by extension, the Obama administration) which is wrong in denying access to the SAVE database which would allow accuracy in purging the voter roles. Regardless, I think it is wrong for any Governor to purge legal citizens from the voting roles in a "guilty until proven innocent" action.
 
OpportunityCost said:
The problem is he cannot find out if his information is correct or incorrect without the DHS illegals database. Hence the reason they are criticizing it is because of the information they are witholding.
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True, but does that mean Scott is righteous in disenfranchising innocent American citizens?
 
Objective Voice said:
How many more threads do we need discussing the FL voter purge issue?

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...eds-florida-halt-non-citizen-voter-purge.html

http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-el...ry-purge-180-000-voters-before-elections.html

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...tate-we-won-t-resume-voter-purge-program.html

I have no problem with FL or any other state purging their voter registration files as long as in so doing they DON'T discard authentic (legal) registered voters. To that, the question clearly is has Florida's elected officials (specifically, their Governor) gone about purging their voter registration records the right way under state and federal law? Seems to me the answer is a resounding NO!
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Did you read the original post? This thread is about Florida suing the DHS to have access to the SAVE database.
 
OpportunityCost said:
The problem is he cannot find out if his information is correct or incorrect without the DHS illegals database. Hence the reason they are criticizing it is because of the information they are witholding.
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Two questions for you:

1) Which DHS database are you referring to and what credible evidence do you have that makes you so certain it's illegal?

2) Is it the same database that was used in previous gubenatorial/presidential elections to identify registered voters in the state of Florida? If so, what's changed about it since the last gubenatorial/presidential election cycle?
 
Objective Voice said:
Two questions for you:

1) Which DHS database are you referring to and what credible evidence do you have that makes you so certain it's illegal?

2) Is it the same database that was used in previous gubenatorial/presidential elections to identify registered voters in the state of Florida? If so, what's changed about it since the last gubenatorial/presidential election cycle?
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Jeez. The OP states clearly what database this is about.
 
Objective Voice said:
Two questions for you:

1) Which DHS database are you referring to and what credible evidence do you have that makes you so certain it's illegal?
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Florida sues DHS for access to the SAVE database to clean up voter rolls - Tampa Bay Political Buzz | Examiner.com
For over nine months the State of Florida has sought access to the Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements (SAVE) database maintained by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) in an effort to verify eligible voters and clean up the voter rolls of ineligible voters.........Detzner’s letter continues “By denying Florida access to the SAVE database, DHS appears to have violated federal law, which provides that states may use the SAVE database for any legal purpose such as… voter registration,” and that “DHS shall respond to an inquiry by a State… government agency… seeking to verify or ascertain the citizenship or immigration status of any individual within the jurisdiction of the agency for any purpose authorized by law, by providing the requested verification or status information.” 76 Fed. Reg. 58525, 58527 (Sept. 21, 2011); 7 U.S.C. 1373(d).
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Prof. Peabody said:
Did you read the original post? This thread is about Florida suing the DHS to have access to the SAVE database.
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Very well then. Abstract from the DHS' Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements (SAVE) Program:

The Verification Division of the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) administers the Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements (SAVE) Program. SAVE is a fee-based intergovernmental initiative designed to help federal, state, tribal, and local government agencies check immigration status for granting benefits, licenses, and other lawful purposes. Previously, USCIS documented the SAVE Program along with the E-Verify Program in the Privacy Impact Assessment (PIA) and System of Records Notice (SORN) of the Verification Information System (VIS), which is the technology that supports both programs. USCIS has conducted separate PIAs for the SAVE and E-Verify programs to assist the public in better understanding each program.
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Notice the "fee-based" part. Seems to me all the Florida state government has to do is purchase the program and they're good to go. Capitalism at it best. :2razz: But I get where you're coming from here, towit:

"If the SAVE database has the capability of checking the immigration status of registered individuals, why not use it to compare state immigration records against federal immigration records?"

Still, it seems to me that all FL has to do is pay for the program and the problem is solved. Notice what the OP says:

the State of Florida has sought access to the SAVE database...
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...not assistance from DHS in verifying the data it contains...big difference.
 
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Objective Voice said:
Very well then. Abstract from the DHS' Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements (SAVE) Program:



Notice the "fee-based" part. Seems to me all the Florida state government has to do is purchase the program and they're good to go. Capitalism at it best. :2razz: But I get where you're coming from here, towit:

"If the SAVE database has the capability of checking the immigration status of registered individuals, why not use it to compare state immigration records against federal immigration records?"

Still, it seems to me that all FL has to do is pay for the program and the problem is solved. Notice what the OP says:



...not assistance from DHS in verifying the data it contains...big difference.
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The issue is not payment for the data. DHS is refusing access to Florida to the database. There is no evidence that Florida is asking for free access to the data. DHS won't let them compare their voter roles to the database at any price. They've been stonewalling Florida for a year now.

Seems stonewalling is the only thing this administration is good at.
 
Why do they need access to SAVE? Why can't they use their drivers license database? It's sufficient enough. . .:shrug:
 
Gill said:
The issue is not payment for the data. DHS is refusing access to Florida to the database. There is no evidence that Florida is asking for free access to the data. DHS won't let them compare their voter roles to the database at any price. They've been stonewalling Florida for a year now.

Seems stonewalling is the only thing this administration is good at.
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Florida needs to pay for the database then they will have full access to the database. Simple!
 
Objective Voice said:
Florida needs to pay for the database then they will have full access to the database. Simple!
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One more time..... DHS REFUSES to give them access. The fee is per use and if they are not allowed to access it, they obviously can't use it.
 
Gill said:
One more time..... DHS REFUSES to give them access. The fee is per use and if they are not allowed to access it, they obviously can't use it.
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Aunt Spiker said:
Why do they need access to SAVE? Why can't they use their drivers license database? It's sufficient enough. . .:shrug:
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Seem plausable enough. Just compare state DMV records with voter registration records and the problem is atleast partically solved. Of course, you might miss those senior citizens who no longer have a valid driver's license, but you'd sure narrow down the search significantly. Of course, a more thorough review of the SAVE abstract reveals this nugget of info:

Many state DMVs already access SAVE to determine the status of non-citizens.
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Problem solved, folks!
 
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sawyerloggingon said:
Its almost like dems want voter fraud but that just could not be true. :roll:
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No - it's a sensible hesitation from the FEDS. . . you cannot use a fed database outside of it's original intent in order to do somethign that only you have decided is your priority within your state . . . that crosses the line, really - and enters into a constitutionally grey area: Can fed-registers (etc) be used for individual-state purposes by letting go of the reigns?

We don't have a nationalized voting system because it's not allowed - the federal governemnt is suppose to stay *out* of our voting process. . it is strictly state-by-state.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Why do they need access to SAVE? Why can't they use their drivers license database? It's sufficient enough. . .
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You don't have to be a US citizen to get a drivers license.
 
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Aunt Spiker said:
No - it's a sensible hesitation from the FEDS. . . you cannot use a fed database outside of it's original intent in order to do somethign that only you have decided is your priority within your state . . . that crosses the line, really - and enters into a constitutionally grey area: Can fed-registers (etc) be used for individual-state purposes by letting go of the reigns?

We don't have a nationalized voting system because it's not allowed - the federal governemnt is suppose to stay *out* of our voting process. . it is strictly state-by-state.
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The original intent of SAVE was so states could verify immigration status. Seems to be exactly what Florida is trying to do.
 
Gill said:
Jeez. The OP states clearly what database this is about.
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SAVE is a citizenship database maintained by DHS. It's little wonder why the Obama daministration wouldn't want that being compared to the voter rolls, he might lose 25% of his voters.
 
Gill said:
The original intent of SAVE was so states could verify immigration status. Seems to be exactly what Florida is trying to do.
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Somewhat - it's a process; fill out forms. You need a reason for inquiring - you just can't ask - you need a reason. The government doesn't just do whatever it wants.

Are they going to run a request process for every individual? How many government hours will that consume?

What they want is to have free access to the database - which is unacceptable. HOWEVER MUCH I support Florida's efforts to curtail this and control this: I don't believe they have the right to do so by taking over the database system for a while.
 
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