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Thread: Florida sues Homeland Security over state voter purge

  1. #31
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    Re: Florida sues Homeland Security over state voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Do you actually think they would pay for access to the SAVE database if their drivers license data was correct and usable??? That makes no sense. They've already said they tried to use it and it was not sufficient for the purpose.

    SAVE was created so states could verify citizenship for benefits, licenses, and voter registration..... exactly what Florida is attempting to do. The federal mandates were passed by Congress into law, so there is no legal or logical reason why DHS is preventing them from accessing the data, EXCEPT to prevent Florida from purging non-citizens from the voter rolls.
    If they were able to do this on a case-by-case basis then why haven't they been using SAVE as needed when an individual registered to vote? Why haven't they required verifiable 'citizenship evidence' (birht certificate, etc) - to register? Florida dropped the ball and now wants the feds to go out of their way to help them along and fix their errors.

    Maybe they should fix the problems within their own state and their own system first that created this entire situation . . .and use the system like everyone else has to; fill out a request form *when* it's absolutely necessary.

    Regardless - the supreme court should define this issue and address it; the feds shouldn't muddle the lines purely because of Florida's past lack of give-a-damn . . . it would only create more issues if the feds just went along with it.

    In general: One issue I have overall is the federal government's many bureaucracies and agencies and how they each believe they have the right to just do whatever they want without prior approval - in general; I believe that every single action and permission given to any such must be decided on by the Scotus or Congress; I don't believe they should have the power to dictate this issue unless otherwise instructed to do so.

    It started with the Chevron ruling for agencies and just sort of exploded from there - the branches of the fed gov need to be reigned in.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 06-12-12 at 10:30 AM.
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  2. #32
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    Re: Florida sues Homeland Security over state voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    If they were able to do this on a case-by-case basis then why haven't they been using SAVE as needed when an individual registered to vote? Why haven't they required verifiable 'citizenship evidence' (birht certificate, etc) - to register? Florida dropped the ball and now wants the feds to go out of their way to help them along and fix their errors.

    Maybe they should fix the problems within their own state and their own system first that created this entire situation . . .and use the system like everyone else has to; fill out a request form *when* it's absolutely necessary.
    Name me one state that requires a birth certificate to register to vote...........

    Wisconsin was registering people at the voting booth a few weeks ago. Almost no identification is required to register to vote anywhere.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





  3. #33
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    Re: Florida sues Homeland Security over state voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    If they were able to do this on a case-by-case basis then why haven't they been using SAVE as needed when an individual registered to vote? Why haven't they required verifiable 'citizenship evidence' (birht certificate, etc) - to register? Florida dropped the ball and now wants the feds to go out of their way to help them along and fix their errors.

    Maybe they should fix the problems within their own state and their own system first that created this entire situation . . .and use the system like everyone else has to; fill out a request form *when* it's absolutely necessary.
    Why would you be against them using every database available to weed out folks who shouldn't be voting? It's against the law you know.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

  4. #34
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    Re: Florida sues Homeland Security over state voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Do you actually think they would pay for access to the SAVE database if their drivers license data was correct and usable??? That makes no sense. They've already said they tried to use it and it was not sufficient for the purpose.

    SAVE was created so states could verify citizenship for benefits, licenses, and voter registration..... exactly what Florida is attempting to do. The federal mandates were passed by Congress into law, so there is no legal or logical reason why DHS is preventing them from accessing the data, EXCEPT to prevent Florida from purging non-citizens from the voter rolls.
    Again, state or private contractor use of the SAVE database is commercial in nature, i.e., fee-based. If FL really wants the information the database contains beyond what they already have access to, i.e., DMV record comparisons, then they'd best accept the fact that they'll just have to pay for the information after they've narrowed down their list of questionable illegally registered voters.

    The problem clearly is FL's Republican governor, while trying to do the right thing (no pun intended here), is playing to Right-Wing politics (pun clearly intended here).

    "I want to clean up the state's voter registration records and have clean and fair elections from here on out, but the Obama Administration won't give my state direct and unfettered access to the SAVE database."

    Suck it up, man! Narrow down your list using the verification means at your disposal then submit your list of questionable voter registrants to the DHS appropriately...after paying the prerequisit fees, of course.

    DOJ, Florida in Dueling Lawsuits Over Voter Purge
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 06-12-12 at 10:33 AM.

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    Re: Florida sues Homeland Security over state voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Again, state or private contractor use of the SAVE database is commercial in nature, i.e., fee-based. If FL really wants the information the database contains beyond what they already have access to, i.e., DMV record comparisons, then they'd best accept the fact that they'll just have to pay for the information after they've narrowed down their list of questionable illegally registered voters.

    The problem clearly is FL's Republican governor, while trying to do the right thing (no pun intended here), is playing to Right-Wing politics (pun clearly intended here).

    "I want to clean up the state's voter registration records and have clean and fair elections from here on out, but the Obama Administration won't give my state direct and unfettered access to the SAVE database."

    Suck it up, man! Narrow down your list using the verification means at your disposal then submit your list of questionable voter registrants to the DHS appropriately...after paying the prerequisit fees, of course.

    DOJ, Florida in Dueling Lawsuits Over Voter Purge
    One more time..... what proof do you have that Florida is not willing to pay for access to the database???

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Florida sues Homeland Security over state voter purge

    Even if the feds were authorized to give access to the SAVE database, it appears that Florida has not provided sufficient information to make use of it:

    But [Assistant Attorney General Thomas] Perez wrote that Florida has been on notice for eight months that the federal database can only work if Florida provides more information than the name and date of birth of potential non-citizen voters, such as numeric identifiers in immigration paperwork or underlying immigration documents.

    “Florida has failed to either to provide the necessary information to DHS, or to confirm that the necessary information would be available for verification purposes under the SAVE Program,” he wrote. “As a result, the significant problems you are encountering in administering this new program are of your own creation.”
    Feds, Florida in dueling lawsuits over voter purge | www.palmbeachpost.com
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  7. #37
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    Re: Florida sues Homeland Security over state voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Even if the feds were authorized to give access to the SAVE database, it appears that Florida has not provided sufficient information to make use of it:
    Is that why DHS has been cancelling teleconferences and meetings with Florida officials for 8 months to discuss the issue ????

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Florida sues Homeland Security over state voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post
    Why would you be against them using every database available to weed out folks who shouldn't be voting? It's against the law you know.
    I'm not against them using it - why do you think I am? Simply; I believe that in order for this to happen the method and rules of conduct need to be defined - permission needs to be given to those rules that are defined so the Constitution is not violated in the process.

    Florida right now is in knee-jerk mode; they were embarassed and want to quickly fix something that hsould be done *very carefully*

    We cannot forget that Florida's failure to verify *with* the SAVE system (etc) per registration is the reason why we they have this issue - they cannot just snap their fingers and undo it quickly. They MUST define their method and their approach and be sure to take time to do it right and make sure that proper citzens are not dropped and denied their rights, etc, because of a system error or misidentification (etc).

    One thing we know for sure; is that anytime any government wnats ot do somethig quickly to remedy a situation that grew over time they're certain to **** it all up for everyone.
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    I see the liberals are running interference as usual.

    Multiple references to Florida wanting free access, based on what?

    Where have they said "we demand free access to the SAVE database"

    DHS has denied them access. You can't buy a product if the owner is unwilling to sell it.

  10. #40
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    Re: Florida sues Homeland Security over state voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    I'm not against them using it - why do you think I am? Simply; I believe that in order for this to happen the method and rules of conduct need to be defined - permission needs to be given to those rules that are defined so the Constitution is not violated in the process.

    Florida right now is in knee-jerk mode; they were embarassed and want to quickly fix something that hsould be done *very carefully*

    We cannot forget that Florida's failure to verify *with* the SAVE system (etc) per registration is the reason why we they have this issue - they cannot just snap their fingers and undo it quickly. They MUST define their method and their approach and be sure to take time to do it right and make sure that proper citzens are not dropped and denied their rights, etc, because of a system error or misidentification (etc).

    One thing we know for sure; is that anytime any government wnats ot do somethig quickly to remedy a situation that grew over time they're certain to **** it all up for everyone.
    Knee jerk ???? Are you serious ???

    Florida has been trying to schedule meetings with DHS for almost a year and DHS keeps cancelling them at the last minute.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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