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Thread: Florida sues Homeland Security over state voter purge

  1. #21
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    Re: Florida sues Homeland Security over state voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Its almost like dems want voter fraud but that just could not be true.
    No - it's a sensible hesitation from the FEDS. . . you cannot use a fed database outside of it's original intent in order to do somethign that only you have decided is your priority within your state . . . that crosses the line, really - and enters into a constitutionally grey area: Can fed-registers (etc) be used for individual-state purposes by letting go of the reigns?

    We don't have a nationalized voting system because it's not allowed - the federal governemnt is suppose to stay *out* of our voting process. . it is strictly state-by-state.
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    Re: Florida sues Homeland Security over state voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker
    Why do they need access to SAVE? Why can't they use their drivers license database? It's sufficient enough. . .
    You don't have to be a US citizen to get a drivers license.
    Last edited by Gill; 06-12-12 at 09:45 AM.

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    Re: Florida sues Homeland Security over state voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    No - it's a sensible hesitation from the FEDS. . . you cannot use a fed database outside of it's original intent in order to do somethign that only you have decided is your priority within your state . . . that crosses the line, really - and enters into a constitutionally grey area: Can fed-registers (etc) be used for individual-state purposes by letting go of the reigns?

    We don't have a nationalized voting system because it's not allowed - the federal governemnt is suppose to stay *out* of our voting process. . it is strictly state-by-state.
    The original intent of SAVE was so states could verify immigration status. Seems to be exactly what Florida is trying to do.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Florida sues Homeland Security over state voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Jeez. The OP states clearly what database this is about.
    SAVE is a citizenship database maintained by DHS. It's little wonder why the Obama daministration wouldn't want that being compared to the voter rolls, he might lose 25% of his voters.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

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    Re: Florida sues Homeland Security over state voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    The original intent of SAVE was so states could verify immigration status. Seems to be exactly what Florida is trying to do.
    Somewhat - it's a process; fill out forms. You need a reason for inquiring - you just can't ask - you need a reason. The government doesn't just do whatever it wants.

    Are they going to run a request process for every individual? How many government hours will that consume?

    What they want is to have free access to the database - which is unacceptable. HOWEVER MUCH I support Florida's efforts to curtail this and control this: I don't believe they have the right to do so by taking over the database system for a while.
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    Re: Florida sues Homeland Security over state voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Somewhat - it's a process; fill out forms. You need a reason for inquiring - you just can't ask - you need a reason. The government doesn't just do whatever it wants.

    Are they going to run a request process for every individual? How many government hours will that consume?

    What they want is to have free access to the database - which is unacceptable. HOWEVER MUCH I support Florida's efforts to curtail this and control this: I don't believe they have the right to do so by taking over the database system for a while.
    I have not seen any indication that they want free access to the database. Have you? DHS has a per use fee that they evidently feel is enough to cover their costs. Since they reported a 14% profit in user fees, they are obviously charging enough for use of the database.

    They want to use it the same way hundreds of other agencies and states have... to verify immigration status.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Florida sues Homeland Security over state voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Somewhat - it's a process; fill out forms. You need a reason for inquiring - you just can't ask - you need a reason. The government doesn't just do whatever it wants.

    Are they going to run a request process for every individual? How many government hours will that consume?

    What they want is to have free access to the database - which is unacceptable. HOWEVER MUCH I support Florida's efforts to curtail this and control this: I don't believe they have the right to do so by taking over the database system for a while.
    Illegals voting against the law is a very good reason.

    ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION REFORM AND IMMIGRANT RESPONSIBILITY ACT 1996 (IIRIRA-96)

    Section 215. Criminal Penalty for False Claim to Citizenship.

    It is unlawful for any person to: (1) make a false claim to U.S. citizenship or nationality for the purpose of obtaining, for him or herself or any other person, any federal benefit or service or employment in the U.S.; and (2) make a false claim to U.S. citizenship to vote or register to vote in any federal, state, or local election.

    http://www.nacua.org/documents/iirira.pdf
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

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    Re: Florida sues Homeland Security over state voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    I have not seen any indication that they want free access to the database. Have you? DHS has a per use fee that they evidently feel is enough to cover their costs. Since they reported a 14% profit in user fees, they are obviously charging enough for use of the database.

    They want to use it the same way hundreds of other agencies and states have... to verify immigration status.
    That's a grey area - they haven't defined how theyd' do it. . . they have stated their intent is to compare *everyone* who's a register voter to the SAVE database. . . millions of people?

    They can use their own database for that purpose to the best of their intent - the feds should stay out of individual state voting issues completely to avoid crossing the constituttionally defined lines of what the fed can and cannot do.

    It should be addressed by supreme court - at least - just bikering with the department is going to lead no where.

    If the fed in the end agrees; they have to come up with some sort of method or way of making it smooth and efficient without interfering with other such services. . . someone needs to defined the method and means for use on such a large scale.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 06-12-12 at 10:19 AM.
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    Re: Florida sues Homeland Security over state voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    That's a grey area - they haven't defined how theyd' do it. . . they have stated their intent is to compare *everyone* who's a register voter to the SAVE database. . . millions of people?

    They can use their own database for that purpose to the best of their intent - the feds should state out of individual state voting issues completely to avoid crossing the constituttionally defined lines of what the fed can and cannot do.

    It should be addressed by supreme court - at least - just bikering with the department is going to lead no where.

    If the fed in the end agrees; they have to come up with some sort of method or way of making it smooth and efficient without interfering with other such services. . . someone needs to defined the method and means for use on such a large scale.
    Do you actually think they would pay for access to the SAVE database if their drivers license data was correct and usable??? That makes no sense. They've already said they tried to use it and it was not sufficient for the purpose.

    SAVE was created so states could verify citizenship for benefits, licenses, and voter registration..... exactly what Florida is attempting to do. The federal mandates were passed by Congress into law, so there is no legal or logical reason why DHS is preventing them from accessing the data, EXCEPT to prevent Florida from purging non-citizens from the voter rolls.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Florida sues Homeland Security over state voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    That's a grey area - they haven't defined how theyd' do it. . . they have stated their intent is to compare *everyone* who's a register voter to the SAVE database. . . millions of people?

    They can use their own database for that purpose to the best of their intent - the feds should state out of individual state voting issues completely to avoid crossing the constituttionally defined lines of what the fed can and cannot do.

    It should be addressed by supreme court - at least - just bikering with the department is going to lead no where.

    If the fed in the end agrees; they have to come up with some sort of method or way of making it smooth and efficient without interfering with other such services. . . someone needs to defined the method and means for use on such a large scale.
    You know, this FL voter purge debate and DHS denial of unfettered access to a federal citizen -vs- alien database is a great argument for a national ID card.

    Just saying...

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