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90 Percent of Chicago Teachers Authorize Strike

Wow, the conservatives really jumped on this thread without any knowledge of the specific situation outside of the pittance that was described in the OP article.

Who ever would have guessed that would happen?

So...tell us where we're missing the point.
 
"So the city wants to increase the amount of time the teachers work while implementing an effective pay freeze/cut (2% raise in nominal wages vs. 2%+ inflation). So in real terms workers wages will go down as their hours increase, and the teachers are the ones being greedy? :roll:


So let me get this straight, The Union voted in a rushed vote so they could include 1500 votes that otherwise wouldn't be counted. They are bitching because they have to work a 7 hr. day instead of 6. And due to hard times their automatic raise is frozen.....Oh, and they did this before an independent fact finding board came out with their recommendations.... Yes, they are greedy. :cool:

Also, FDR wasn't against public sector unions.

Is that so? Just one of many thoughts on the subject of government employees Unions from his own pen.

FDR said:
All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations when applied to public personnel management. The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for administrative officials to represent fully or to bind the employer in mutual discussions with Government employee organizations. The employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives in Congress. Accordingly, administrative officials and employees alike are governed and guided, and in many instances restricted, by laws which establish policies, procedures, or rules in personnel matters.

Particularly, I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place in the functions of any organization of Government employees. Upon employees in the Federal service rests the obligation to serve the whole people, whose interests and welfare require orderliness and continuity in the conduct of Government activities. This obligation is paramount. Since their own services have to do with the functioning of the Government, a strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent on their part to prevent or obstruct the operations of Government until their demands are satisfied. Such action, looking toward the paralysis of Government by those who have sworn to support it, is unthinkable and intolerable. It is, therefore, with a feeling of gratification that I have noted in the constitution of the National Federation of Federal Employees the provision that "under no circumstances shall this Federation engage in or support strikes against the United States Government."



Read more at the American Presidency Project: Franklin D. Roosevelt: Letter on the Resolution of Federation of Federal Employees Against Strikes in Federal Service Franklin D. Roosevelt: Letter on the Resolution of Federation of Federal Employees Against Strikes in Federal Service


Why that sounds absolutely supportive of public sector unions.:doh



j-mac
 
So let me get this straight, The Union voted in a rushed vote so they could include 1500 votes that otherwise wouldn't be counted. They are bitching because they have to work a 7 hr. day instead of 6. And due to hard times their automatic raise is frozen.....Oh, and they did this before an independent fact finding board came out with their recommendations.... Yes, they are greedy. :cool:



Is that so? Just one of many thoughts on the subject of government employees Unions from his own pen.




Why that sounds absolutely supportive of public sector unions.:doh



j-mac

One paragraph up liar:

"The desire of Government employees for fair and adequate pay, reasonable hours of work, safe and suitable working conditions, development of opportunities for advancement, facilities for fair and impartial consideration and review of grievances, and other objectives of a proper employee relations policy, is basically no different from that of employees in private industry. Organization on their part to present their views on such matters is both natural and logical, but meticulous attention should be paid to the special relationships and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the Government.

Read more at the American Presidency Project: The American Presidency Project http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=15445#ixzz1xcvihrfa"
 
Whether they are "overpaid" is a matter of opinion. Maybe other districts and other states are "underpaid."

Besides, my points and the points in this thread have nothing to do with overpaid or underpaid. They have to do with being paid for your work. If your work day is extended, I think you should be paid for it, especially if your work day is being extended for no demonstrably good reason. You have said absolutely nothing to counterargue that notion. You've merely changed the subject to discuss your opinion on being overpaid.


Do you have proof that the poor results in Chicago are directly linked to teachers' "substandard performance"?

Illinois Ranking 35th in Education nationwide and Mr. Duncan's Chicago school system ranks as having all 10 worst High Schools (out of 604), 3 of the 10 worst Middle schools (out of 725) and 7 of the 10 worst Elementary Schools (out of 2265) in the entire state of Illinois.

Bottom 10 Worst Illinois State Elementary Schools - IL School Rankings

35th in education nation wide???? Yea they're over paid.
 
One paragraph up liar:

"The desire of Government employees for fair and adequate pay, reasonable hours of work, safe and suitable working conditions, development of opportunities for advancement, facilities for fair and impartial consideration and review of grievances, and other objectives of a proper employee relations policy, is basically no different from that of employees in private industry. Organization on their part to present their views on such matters is both natural and logical, but meticulous attention should be paid to the special relationships and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the Government.

Read more at the American Presidency Project: The American Presidency Project http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=15445#ixzz1xcvihrfa"

See, obviously, you missed this part right after what you highlighted to me....And you call me names?....Pfft....

j-mac
 
Nah...obviously the union supporters are correct and democrats are out to destroy them.
 
35th in education nation wide???? Yea they're over paid.
We've already been over the fact that the quality of education cannot be pinned exclusively on teachers.

Blaming the state of an entire education system on teachers is like blaming the failure of the auto industry on car salesmen. It's beyond ignorant and interestingly enough, an example of why our education really needs to improve.
 
So a teacher is the ONLY factor in how well a student performs?
Well...no...it doesnt help that the 'community' in question is a train wreck. Shame they couldnt have an effective 'community organizer' in there at some time to really affect strong positive changes.
 
Well...no...it doesnt help that the 'community' in question is a train wreck. Shame they couldnt have an effective 'community organizer' in there at some time to really affect strong positive changes.

Hmmm so are you alluding that it is now Obama's fault? It's funny that the right likes to put all the blame on the teachers but not the parents or students.
 
We've already been over the fact that the quality of education cannot be pinned exclusively on teachers.

Blaming the state of an entire education system on teachers is like blaming the failure of the auto industry on car salesmen. It's beyond ignorant and interestingly enough, an example of why our education really needs to improve.

A teachers job is to motivate kids to want to learn. If they can't do that they're over paid. If you want the education system to improve, let the teachers compete for their jobs by their classroom performance.
 
So a teacher is the ONLY factor in how well a student performs?

I never said that, you did. If I sell widgets and the other salesmen out sell me every month, I shouldn't have my job long as I'm a lousy salesmen. If a teachers can't motivate their kids to learn, then perhaps their efforts would be more productive as a Janitor.
 
One paragraph up liar:

All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service.

I'm sure you must have missed this part. Calling others liars just demeans you and your credibility.
 
Hmmm so are you alluding that it is now Obama's fault? It's funny that the right likes to put all the blame on the teachers but not the parents or students.
Really? PLEASE show where 'the right' absolves students and parents. I'll wait...

The topic of the OP is 'teachers' and in my first post I pointed out very clearly it is NOT all the teachers fault. In previous threads on Americas failing education system it is regularly pointed out that the PRIMARY responsibility lies with students and families.

Its 'funny' how quickly you get your dainties caught in your crack when I make a joking dig at the 'community' Obama 'organized'.
 
Really? PLEASE show where 'the right' absolves students and parents. I'll wait...

Hmmm, that would be right here:

A teachers job is to motivate kids to want to learn. If they can't do that they're over paid. If you want the education system to improve, let the teachers compete for their jobs by their classroom performance.

Where is any of the blame on the parents or students listed in the above quote?


Its 'funny' how quickly you get your dainties caught in your crack when I make a joking dig at the 'community' Obama 'organized'.

I don't recall Obama saying he organized EVERYTHING, please show us where he said that?
 
"Our members ... were loud, serious and clear," Lewis said. "We want a contract that gives Chicago students the school they deserve. So we call on CPSs to take this process seriously and negotiate with us in good faith with an eye on the real prize, our children."

They want a contract that gives students what they deserve huh? Yet their problem with the contract is in how much they are getting paid and not for any benefit towards the students.

And people wonder why so many are against public unions.
 
Hmmm so are you alluding that it is now Obama's fault? It's funny that the right likes to put all the blame on the teachers but not the parents or students.

Well it certainly is not Bush's fault!

You have misunderstood the right, or you are just pulling it out of your ass. The right blames the parents as much if not more than the teachers, and while not as much we also blame the students (they ARE minors).
 
Well it certainly is not Bush's fault!

It's not any president's fault. I don't believe that lack of graduation is a president's fault.

You have misunderstood the right, or you are just pulling it out of your ass. The right blames the parents as much if not more than the teachers, and while not as much we also blame the students (they ARE minors).

You can read a book to a student, but you cannot force them to think.

If you have a student that absoultely does not want to learn, no teacher can teach that child. There are some students who are completely unmotivated to learn no matter what.

Of course I am of the mindset of flunking a student or kicking them out after a point.

However, in this thread alone there are conservatives that blame the teachers and want to put their pay directly related to whether a student can pass a test. Sorry, but that is not the answer given that there are many factors outside a teacher's control. That being the student's willingness or unwillingness to learn and parents that either care or don't care.

Teachers should not be punished for things they cannot control.
 
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They want a contract that gives students what they deserve huh? Yet their problem with the contract is in how much they are getting paid and not for any benefit towards the students.
That's not accurate. It's pretty obvious that you read one article, the OP, about this situation and decided to make a blanket statement about it. Since you aren't interested in doing your own research, I'll do it for you. Here's what CTU wants their contract to address, much of which directly affects students. In fact, they have a question specifically directed a people like you:

Is this strike authorization vote just about the money?

No. CTU is fighting for a variety of things that will help improve neighborhood schools, including smaller class sizes, air conditioning and heating repairs in schools; art, music, world languages and physical education instructors and classes in every single school; better school facilities; stipends for school supplies for needy students; and a host of other things that will improve the quality of education in our public schools.

Wages and benefits are important parts of labor agreements. The upcoming July 15 report will primarily address some of the CTU’s wage and benefits concerns. The CTU has requested a negotiable 29% pay increase over two years in the first round of bargaining. Twenty percent because teachers and public school educators are being asked to work 20% longer; 4% because this was the contractual raise stolen from public school workers last year; and a 5% increase in the second year of the new contract.

Chicago Teachers Union | CTU Answers More Questions about the "Strike Authorization Vote"

So no, the contract isn't just about how much they are getting paid. Fail.
 
Eighteen months ago the General Assembly raised the Illinois income tax by 67%, and the state's fiscal hole is worse now than it was then. Who the heck is supposed to pay for the teachers union's demands???
 
That's not accurate. It's pretty obvious that you read one article, the OP, about this situation and decided to make a blanket statement about it. Since you aren't interested in doing your own research, I'll do it for you. Here's what CTU wants their contract to address, much of which directly affects students. In fact, they have a question specifically directed a people like you:



So no, the contract isn't just about how much they are getting paid. Fail.


I find it stunning that you actually posted the portion of the article you did obviously without even reading it past the part you wanted to highlight disingenuously. The reason I say that is because you claimed 'fail' because you said that it wasn't just about pay, when the very next paragraph of what you posted but didn't highlight says otherwise, here I'll highlight it for you....

from thePlayDrive's article said:
Wages and benefits are important parts of labor agreements. The upcoming July 15 report will primarily address some of the CTU’s wage and benefits concerns. The CTU has requested a negotiable 29% pay increase over two years in the first round of bargaining. Twenty percent because teachers and public school educators are being asked to work 20% longer; 4% because this was the contractual raise stolen from public school workers last year; and a 5% increase in the second year of the new contract.


Now these teachers are paid a starting salary of the upper $40K per year to start, as pointed out earlier, and yet rank in the bottom of education levels. Why should ANY of them not be laughed out of the negotiation room?


j-mac
 
It's not any president's fault. I don't believe that lack of graduation is a president's fault.



You can read a book to a student, but you cannot force them to think.

If you have a student that absoultely does not want to learn, no teacher can teach that child. There are some students who are completely unmotivated to learn no matter what.

Of course I am of the mindset of flunking a student or kicking them out after a point.

However, in this thread alone there are conservatives that blame the teachers and want to put their pay directly related to whether a student can pass a test. Sorry, but that is not the answer given that there are many factors outside a teacher's control. That being the student's willingness or unwillingness to learn and parents that either care or don't care.

Teachers should not be punished for things they cannot control.

Pure cop out. According to this post it is the parents fault, it is the students fault, but NEVER the teacher's fault....


j-mac
 
j-mac said:
The reason I say that is because you claimed 'fail' because you said that it wasn't just about pay, when the very next paragraph of what you posted but didn't highlight says otherwise

LOL, you realize that "primarily" does not mean "solely" correct?

Pure cop out. According to this post it is the parents fault, it is the students fault, but NEVER the teacher's fault....

Straw man.
 
I find it stunning that you actually posted the portion of the article you did obviously without even reading it past the part you wanted to highlight disingenuously. The reason I say that is because you claimed 'fail' because you said that it wasn't just about pay, when the very next paragraph of what you posted but didn't highlight says otherwise, here I'll highlight it for you....

I actually posted that portion of the article on purpose, so I wouldn't be accused by juvenile posters with low IQs of purposely leaving it off even though it has absolutely zero affect on my point. I don't even know what significance you think the part you highlighted even has.

Now these teachers are paid a starting salary of the upper $40K per year to start, as pointed out earlier, and yet rank in the bottom of education levels. Why should ANY of them not be laughed out of the negotiation room?
You can laugh if you want. Although it appears your laughter is based on the false premise that teachers are to blame for the low rank of an entire education system which is laughable in itself considering how many factors influence education systems.

Yes, we know who you are. No need to sign your posts.
 
Beyond a teachers control, yes, however these metrics are not beyond control when structuring a pay scale.

Tim-

If you want to hold teachers accountable for things they cannot control and punish good teachers for bad students and parents, I guess the metrics isn't beyond control.

Of course if you want to do it right, other factors have to be taken into consideration.
 
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