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Thread: 90 Percent of Chicago Teachers Authorize Strike

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    Re: 90 Percent of Chicago Teachers Authorize Strike

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    You are correct. With the high income tax rates Illinois has, and the highest sales tax in the nation in Chicago itself, it would be difficult to lure any prospective teachers to the area.
    Or perhaps maybe teaching at private institutions and wealthy suburban public schools is a more attractive option for most teachers. Maybe. Just maybe.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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    Re: 90 Percent of Chicago Teachers Authorize Strike

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    IN addition, we already know that all kids (on average) can learn.
    Yes, in ideal home, parenting, and school situations you are correct. However, not every student has those ideal situations, so learning is varied greatly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Charter schools have shown that to be true even of the most poorest among us, so that kids can't learn is nonesense, but do we pay our teachers based on how well their home life is, or how well they score on standard tests?
    But does basing their salary on how well or poor their students do on a test an accurate reflection of the teachers ability?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post

    I mean then there are teachers who REALLY can't teach, and these one's need to go.


    Tim-
    True, but I don't think standardized testing should be the "be all end all" metric for basing teacher's salaries.
    Last edited by TheNextEra; 06-12-12 at 01:44 PM.

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    Re: 90 Percent of Chicago Teachers Authorize Strike

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Based on the above post, I guess so.



    If I pay you $1 for five widgets in one transaction, then $1.10 for six widgets in another, did the price of widgets go up or down?
    The price went up, however, that's not what happened here, but nice try.

    using your logic if the price of widgets was $0.20 cents each yesterday but are now $0.204 today, did the price go up or down? The teachers charged the city $0.20 cents yesterday for work, now they are going to get $0.204 cents for their services.. See how it works?

    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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    Re: 90 Percent of Chicago Teachers Authorize Strike

    The price went up
    The price of widgets went down, actually. I don't know why you are having trouble with a concept I learned in like first grade. And yes, this is exactly what happened: the price of labor (wages) went down.

    Also I don't know why you keep going back to your example which is not relevant whatsoever as the increase in pay was not commensurate with the increase in the working day and inflation.
    Last edited by Khayembii Communique; 06-12-12 at 01:51 PM.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: 90 Percent of Chicago Teachers Authorize Strike

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Yes, in ideal home, parenting, and school situations you are correct. However, not every student has those ideal situations, so learning is varied greatly.
    But isn't the reverse also true?



    But does basing their salary on how well or poor their students do on a test an accurate reflection of the teachers ability?
    Why not? Do you have a better idea?



    True, but I don't think standardized testing should be the "be all end all" metric for basing teacher's salaries.
    Ok, so how about graduating students? I'm open to ideas but this nonesense about forever increasing teachers compensation for nothing other than being part of the teachers club is silly. It doesn't work, hasn't every worked, and our kids have been suffering for 50 years because of this system.


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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    Re: 90 Percent of Chicago Teachers Authorize Strike

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    The price of widgets went down, actually. I don't know why you are having trouble with a concept I learned in like first grade. And yes, this is exactly what happened: the price of labor (wages) went down.

    Also I don't know why you keep going back to your example which is not relevant whatsoever as the increase in pay was not commensurate with the increase in the working day.
    Sorry yes it went down, that's what I meant, trying to keep up here and work at the same time.. Honest mistake. But my example still holds true based on an hourly illustration, NOT salaried.


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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    Re: 90 Percent of Chicago Teachers Authorize Strike

    But my example still holds true based on an hourly illustration, NOT salaried.
    But again, teachers are salaried. Pay increases are salary increases, not hourly. So your example doesn't hold, and Don's does.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: 90 Percent of Chicago Teachers Authorize Strike

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    Actually, that is realistic.
    It's about as realistic as the FAA's contention that they could restore their Air Traffic Control staff to normal levels within two years after the 1981 PATCO strike, which resulted in 11,000+ federal Air Traffic Controllers being fired. It ended up taking ten years for the FAA to restore staffing levels to normal.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: 90 Percent of Chicago Teachers Authorize Strike

    wow if the teachers went on strike, got fired and then some rehired I guess that would fix the pension and tenure problems. Maybe all schools should strike for a week or so!

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    Re: 90 Percent of Chicago Teachers Authorize Strike

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Right now, City of Chicago teachers are given raises based on "steps and lanes" -- steps being 'another year in front of the blackboard' and lanes being more hours towards an advanced degree. We don't need advanced degrees. We need teachers who can teach. All the knowledge in the world -- all the degrees we have to offer -- mean nothing if we can't teach kids to read and write.
    I so agree. But one assessment measurement is "professional development," so the teachers don't have much choice if they want to advance in their careers.

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