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Thread: 90 Percent of Chicago Teachers Authorize Strike

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    Re: 90 Percent of Chicago Teachers Authorize Strike

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    It doesn't require that they're paid more.

    Have you ever worked a salaried job? There were several instances when I was asked to work over time as a salaried employee. It comes with the territory. These teachers are absolutely selfish, demanding well and above what most other educators across the country make...to provide an education ranked at the end of the spectrum.
    You sound ridiculous. It's not selfish to think you should be paid for your work and thank God 86% of Chicagoans, including me, agree with that. What has the world come to when people don't think they should be paid for their work?

    And we're not talking about working overtime. Plenty of teachers do that on their own without asking for a cent and will continue to do that. Hell, my mother worked "overtime" all the time without getting paid for it for her over 30 years as a teacher - pissed me off when I was a kid. We're talking about extending work hours. When you extend work hours (for no logical reason, in fact), then you pay people.
    Last edited by ThePlayDrive; 06-12-12 at 11:50 AM.

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    Re: 90 Percent of Chicago Teachers Authorize Strike

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    You sound ridiculous. It's not selfish to think you should be paid for your work and thank God 86% of Chicagoans, including me, agree with that. What has the world come to when people don't think they should be paid for their work?

    And we're not talking about working overtime. Plenty of teachers do that on their own without asking for a cent and will continue to do that. Hell, my mother worked "overtime" all the time without getting paid for it for her over 30 years as a teacher - pissed me off when I was a kid. We're talking about extending work hours. When you extend work hours (for no logical reason, in fact), then you pay people.
    They are paid for their work. In fact, they're quite frankly overpaid for their work. What part of "highest in the state, and higher than most of the country" is hard to wrap your head around? The school system in Chicago is ranked painfully low, on top of it. Why should teachers be paid even more than they already are for substandard performance?
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    Re: 90 Percent of Chicago Teachers Authorize Strike

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    They are paid for their work. In fact, they're quite frankly overpaid for their work
    Whether they are "overpaid" is a matter of opinion. Maybe other districts and other states are "underpaid."

    Besides, my points and the points in this thread have nothing to do with overpaid or underpaid. They have to do with being paid for your work. If your work day is extended, I think you should be paid for it, especially if your work day is being extended for no demonstrably good reason. You have said absolutely nothing to counterargue that notion. You've merely changed the subject to discuss your opinion on being overpaid.

    Why should teachers be paid even more than they already are for substandard performance?
    Do you have proof that the poor results in Chicago are directly linked to teachers' "substandard performance"?
    Last edited by ThePlayDrive; 06-12-12 at 12:02 PM.

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    Re: 90 Percent of Chicago Teachers Authorize Strike

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Whether they are "overpaid" is a matter of opinion. Maybe other districts and other states are "underpaid."

    Besides, my points and the points in this thread have nothing to do with overpaid or underpaid. They have to do with being paid for your work. If your work day is extended, I think you should be paid for it, especially if your work day is being extended for no demonstrably good reason.


    Do you have proof that the poor results in Chicago are directly linked to teachers' "substandard performance"?
    Are you suggesting that poor results in Chicago are linked to an overwhelmingly large number of low-IQ children? Teachers have just as much to do with education results as anybody else. If they were really trying to advocate for the children here they'd be demanding changes in methods, improvements in coursework guidelines, or striving to promote a higher rate of success in the classroom. They wouldn't be bitching about getting paid even more than they already make when the city is essentially broke in the name of "fairness".

    What's happening to the children of Chicago isn't fair. The teachers are already sitting pretty damned high on the hog.
    Last edited by tessaesque; 06-12-12 at 12:04 PM.
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    Re: 90 Percent of Chicago Teachers Authorize Strike

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Are you suggesting that poor results in Chicago are linked to an overwhelmingly large number of low-IQ children?
    Hahaha, you completely abandoned the subject of this thread and went on a complete tangent. We all know what that means.

    In your own words:
    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Not at all. Is this your way of saying you can't refute my point?
    Teachers have just as much to do with education results as anybody else. If they were really trying to advocate for the children here they'd be demanding changes in methods, improvements in coursework guidelines, or striving to promote a higher rate of success in the classroom. They wouldn't be bitching about getting paid even more than they already make when the city is essentially broke in the name of "fairness".

    What's happening to the children of Chicago isn't fair. The teachers are already sitting pretty damned high on the hog.
    So, if I don't blame the teachers, then I MUST think kids are stupid. No, the education system does not exist in such a false dichotomy. On the contrary, the education system is a complex interaction of teachers, students, parents, environment and policy. I see the problems of the Chicago education system as ones mostly located in environment and perpetually bad policy decisions with students being the absolute least problem - meaning they aren't even a problem - they're kids.

    For an example on why policy is a problem, Mayor Emmanuel wants to extend the school day as means of improving education. However, there are no demonstrable positive of effects in extending the school day. Moreover, how students currently spend their school with the time they already have is demonstrably ineffective. This is one of the reasons CTU has continuously argued that Emmanuel should focus on making a better school day instead of a just a longer one. I agree with that. The city needs to focus on making the current day an effective day before they just randomly extend it. That's policy and adults, not kids.
    Last edited by ThePlayDrive; 06-12-12 at 12:24 PM.

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    Re: 90 Percent of Chicago Teachers Authorize Strike

    They are paid for their work. In fact, they're quite frankly overpaid for their work. What part of "highest in the state, and higher than most of the country" is hard to wrap your head around? The school system in Chicago is ranked painfully low, on top of it. Why should teachers be paid even more than they already are for substandard performance?
    EDIT: Self-refuting Tessaesque argument: "Teacher pay does not correlate with student performance. Teachers are overpaid. "
    Last edited by Khayembii Communique; 06-12-12 at 12:32 PM.
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    Re: 90 Percent of Chicago Teachers Authorize Strike

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Mayor Emmanuel wants to extend the school day as means of improving education. However, there are no demonstrable positive of effects in extending the school day. Moreover, how students currently spend their school with the time they already have is demonstrably ineffective. This is one of the reasons CTU has continuously argued that Emmanuel should focus on making a better school day instead of a just a longer one. I agree with that. The city needs to focus on making the current day an effective day before they just randomly extend it. That's policy and adults, not kids.
    First of all, if there really are no demonstrable positive effects in extending the school day, then perhaps it begs the question that perhaps it should be shortened. Which, of course, would be ridiculous.

    Aside from the additional learning time, an extended school day keeps kids busy for longer periods of time. Oh, and safe. Surely there is advantage to that.
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    Re: 90 Percent of Chicago Teachers Authorize Strike

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    EDIT: Self-refuting Tessaesque argument: "Teacher pay does not correlate with student performance. Teachers are overpaid. "
    Right now, City of Chicago teachers are given raises based on "steps and lanes" -- steps being 'another year in front of the blackboard' and lanes being more hours towards an advanced degree. We don't need advanced degrees. We need teachers who can teach. All the knowledge in the world -- all the degrees we have to offer -- mean nothing if we can't teach kids to read and write.
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    Re: 90 Percent of Chicago Teachers Authorize Strike

    Well, I didn’t read the whole thread but if they want a 24% raise, I'd tie any raise to the proficiency of graduating students. On top of that, I tie all compensation to the proficiency of graduating students, oh, and I'd have independent outside the state auditors do the accounting. Chicago is one of the highest compensated school districts yet it’s one of the worst performing. Doesn't seem to add up in the real world, in terms of fair pay for fair results. I know in libby world it doesn't matter it's all about the kiddies, right? Blah blah, that rhetoric went the way of the dinosaur years ago, and no one is buying it anymore. The City isn't a profit based system, and as Don pointed out, cannot be expected to pay for things it cannot afford.

    I actually like the fact the Emmanuel is the Mayor here. He may be a progressive but he's got an ego and he likes to win. Why not leak out to the press that the city will be posting jobs for Chicago teachers this summer? Chicago is a great city (except the ghettos of course) who wouldn't want to go work there?


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    Re: 90 Percent of Chicago Teachers Authorize Strike

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Right now, City of Chicago teachers are given raises based on "steps and lanes" -- steps being 'another year in front of the blackboard' and lanes being more hours towards an advanced degree. We don't need advanced degrees. We need teachers who can teach. All the knowledge in the world -- all the degrees we have to offer -- mean nothing if we can't teach kids to read and write.
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