Page 10 of 14 FirstFirst ... 89101112 ... LastLast
Results 91 to 100 of 134

Thread: 90 Percent of Chicago Teachers Authorize Strike

  1. #91
    Sage
    Mach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Last Seen
    01-12-18 @ 06:39 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    11,686

    Re: 90 Percent of Chicago Teachers Authorize Strike

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Teachers have an impact, but the impact is far from total.
    I agree, teachers have an impact on student performance.

    The notion to only measure student performance as a basis for both raise/promotion or punishment, is obviously absurd, no doubt.
    Last edited by Mach; 06-12-12 at 03:57 PM.

  2. #92
    Sage

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    New York
    Last Seen
    12-13-17 @ 12:40 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    11,691

    Re: 90 Percent of Chicago Teachers Authorize Strike

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    How does the rest of the market overcome this challenge? It's routine in every other industry, why not here?
    By its nature as largely a public good, education isn't truly a market.

    I believe this notion of needing broad agreement is exactly wrong. Private industry innovates and succeeds because it doesn't need broad agreement.
    My point might not have been sufficiently clear. Let's say a business decides it's going to invest a sizable sum of money to allow it to produce a large quantity of Product X. However, in reality, only a few customers desire Product X. The firm will be forced to slash prices to unload its inventory, possibly losing money, and its investment would largely have left it with too much capacity for Product X. Those resources could have been better utilized for some other purpose.

    A similar dynamic applies to education. In the absence of broad agreement (this runs far beyond labor contracts) as to what constitutes a practice worthy of added compensation, extra compensation will likely prove to have been wasted money. In fact, broad public consensus would make it easier for schools to transcend existing barriers to rewarding performance.

    What's worse, is all this evaluation is irrelevant if teachers cannot easily be fired, and if success doesn't result in higher pay/rewards.
    I agree that it should be easier to replace bad teachers and better compensate effective ones. Translating that principle into working policy is not as easy as one would hope or desire, even as the need for improved educational outcomes is growing more urgent.

  3. #93
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,757

    Re: 90 Percent of Chicago Teachers Authorize Strike

    In reading through the thread, and taking into consideration that the knee jerk reaction is to join most people's sentiment in firing the teachers, which is impossible to do because of onerous rule, and procedure, not to mention cost of doing such with just one teacher, not to mention thousands. I would say choose legislation that is more tailored like WI, and go after these automatic raises, and such to bring budgets in line.

    Teaching is a hard job, and not everyone, or just anyone can do it. But, with that said, it is not conducive to have public sector employees unionized in the first place, because this is what you get. FDR spoke about the danger of allowing unionization in government, and warned against it.

    If the move is toward firing anyone, it should be the trouble makers that stir this greedy, selfish pot, that is aimed at enriching their own paychecks at the expense of the children they say they want to help, but really couldn't care less about when it comes to going that extra step.


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  4. #94
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Last Seen
    12-30-17 @ 04:05 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    19,610

    Re: 90 Percent of Chicago Teachers Authorize Strike

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Teaching is a hard job, and not everyone, or just anyone can do it. But, with that said, it is not conducive to have public sector employees unionized in the first place, because this is what you get.
    What have we gotten?

  5. #95
    Temp Suspended
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    55,071

    Re: 90 Percent of Chicago Teachers Authorize Strike

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    They want a 20% "raise" to match the 20% increase in the length of the school day Emmanuel proposed and 4% to make up for the raise they didn't get last year because of mismanaged money. That's not even close to outrageous. If the city doesn't want to pay people to work a longer day, it shouldn't have a longer day especially when lengthening the day has no demonstrable effect on the quality of education. It's outrageous to think that you can tell people to work longer for free and then mismanage money to get out of it.
    Its actually not. In modern times, it is an economic reality. It is very common for less employees to be tasked to do more work for the same or even reduced pay. And the answer is very familiar. "I'm sorry you don't think it is fair. I certainly respect your opinion and position. Thanks for your time with us and good luck in your future endeavors."

    As for 'polls' where people agree with the teachers cause...theres only one 'poll' that counts. Thats the voter initiatives where citizens cast their ballots in favor or against paying higher taxes to PAY for those increases. Until that is the case and people are willing to put muscle behind their hustle, the 'polls' mean precisely jack ****.

  6. #96
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,757

    Re: 90 Percent of Chicago Teachers Authorize Strike

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    What have we gotten?

    Bloated salaries, entitlement attitude with the notion to maximize their bargaining position at the expense of the kids.

    We the people on the other hand have gotten a sector that we entrust our kids education to, that is made up of largely self absorbed, self important, slackers that continually want more and more to turn out an ever worsening result.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  7. #97
    Sage
    Khayembii Communique's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:30 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    8,041

    Re: 90 Percent of Chicago Teachers Authorize Strike

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac
    Bloated salaries, entitlement attitude with the notion to maximize their bargaining position at the expense of the kids.
    "So the city wants to increase the amount of time the teachers work while implementing an effective pay freeze/cut (2% raise in nominal wages vs. 2%+ inflation). So in real terms workers wages will go down as their hours increase, and the teachers are the ones being greedy? "

    Also, FDR wasn't against public sector unions. And even if he was, what does that matter? Why do conservatives love bringing that up? I love how you bring that up all the time in these discussions yet attack him for being a welfare socialist in every other instance.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  8. #98
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Last Seen
    12-30-17 @ 04:05 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    19,610

    Re: 90 Percent of Chicago Teachers Authorize Strike

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Bloated salaries, entitlement attitude with the notion to maximize their bargaining position at the expense of the kids.

    We the people on the other hand have gotten a sector that we entrust our kids education to, that is made up of largely self absorbed, self important, slackers that continually want more and more to turn out an ever worsening result.

    j-mac
    Oh, so we've gotten your hyperbolic opinion that's based on your own prejudices instead of any demonstrable evidence. I figured.

  9. #99
    Sage
    Hicup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Last Seen
    01-11-18 @ 03:35 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    7,846

    Re: 90 Percent of Chicago Teachers Authorize Strike

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    I agree with you. However, several people have argued that teacher performance should be directly measured by student performance and that's what people are responding to. Nobody is denying that teachers have impact on student performance. You made that up.
    That's why statistics can be your friend here. We know that not all kids learn the same way nor do all teachers teach the same way, but when we put them altogether, and if we separate them by demographics and control for variables such as race (oh God forbid), ethnicity, age, location, region and any other important variable, we would begin to see a reasonable expectation of what is below average and above average, we, in-fact, find out what the baseline is. The problem is that, in order to properly find these baselines we muct include this average as a national figure as a State-wide sampling will not ALWAYS provide a reliable measurement.

    So, as an example. If the national average for graduating students in districts where the percentage of enrolled black students is 70% or higher and the expected graduation rate of those students is 65%, then this is a reasonable expectation to apply nationally. Similarily, the other 30% being white (As an example of course it wouldn't be this way but for illustration) students enrolled and say their graduation rate was 85% we could use that as a reasonable baseline for performance.

    In a nutshell, bad parenting need not be an undefinable measurment because quite frankly it is, but the sample needs to cross many demographics, and should probably include the entire nation. If we're going to penalize or reward good and bad teachers we should damn well make sure we have our baseline scales correct, and in order to do that we need to control for every conceivable variable.

    Call it the "America First in Education" initiative. Start taking numbers, or if we have them already, let's start putting the numbers to good use, and begin the way back for American education.

    of course the unions will oppose it, but hey, it can be done.


    Tim-
    Last edited by Hicup; 06-12-12 at 07:09 PM.
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

  10. #100
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:13 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    77,850

    Re: 90 Percent of Chicago Teachers Authorize Strike

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Filling an entire school districts worth of teaching positions within two months(and not caring about finding good teachers which you would have to do) is in no way realistic.
    It's no more unrealistic than replaceing all the teachers who are on strike.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

Page 10 of 14 FirstFirst ... 89101112 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •