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French troop pullout from Afghanistan to start in July

Personally I think that everyone in the ME be giving a warning to leave by X date. Warn them that if they don't leave then they will be caught in the nuclear blasts that will turn the whole of the ME into one giant glass basin.

Would be nice. Not saying actually DO it. But it would be nice. Unfortenately the nuclear fallout would affect the rest of the world.

That whole area has been nothing but a warzone for the past couple thousand years at least. I doubt that it will stop any time with in the next 500 years. I wonder if its the water?
 
Thrilla said:
you haven't told us what your response would be to 9/11 ( you can add in Iraq if ya want)
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In regards to 9/11 attack, I would have done what the Rand Corp recommended in their report commissioned by the Pentagon.

How Terrorist Groups End
Implications for Countering al Qa'ida

"These findings suggest that the U.S. approach to countering al Qa'ida has focused far too much on the use of military force. Instead, policing and intelligence should be the backbone of U.S. efforts."

"A more effective U.S. approach would involve a two-front strategy:

* Make policing and intelligence the backbone of U.S. efforts. Al Qa'ida consists of a network of individuals who need to be tracked and arrested. This requires careful involvement of the Central Intelligence Agency and Federal Bureau of Investigation, as well as their cooperation with foreign police and intelligence agencies.
* Minimize the use of U.S. military force. In most operations against al Qa'ida, local military forces frequently have more legitimacy to operate and a better understanding of the operating environment than U.S. forces have. This means a light U.S. military footprint or none at all.

Key to this strategy is replacing the war-on-terrorism orientation with the kind of counterterrorism approach that is employed by most governments facing significant terrorist threats today. Calling the efforts a war on terrorism raises public expectations — both in the United States and elsewhere — that there is a battlefield solution. It also tends to legitimize the terrorists' view that they are conducting a jihad (holy war) against the United States and elevates them to the status of holy warriors. Terrorists should be perceived as criminals, not holy warriors."

[url]http://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB9351/index1.html [/URL]

In terms of Iraq, since I am not beholden to big oil, I would have done nothing as Iraq was of no military threat to us or their neighbors after the Persian Gulf war and 10 years of sanctions.
 
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Kal'Stang said:
Personally I think that everyone in the ME be giving a warning to leave by X date. Warn them that if they don't leave then they will be caught in the nuclear blasts that will turn the whole of the ME into one giant glass basin.

Would be nice. Not saying actually DO it. But it would be nice. Unfortenately the nuclear fallout would affect the rest of the world.

That whole area has been nothing but a warzone for the past couple thousand years at least. I doubt that it will stop any time with in the next 500 years. I wonder if its the water?
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No, it wouldn't be nice. It would catastrophic for millions of innocent people including millions of children whose only "crime" happens to be that they were born in the ME. Their lives are just as valuable as any other innocent civillian living anywhere else in the world.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
We have a corrupt puppet head in power elected via electoral fraud, nepotism, majority of Afghans dont support the gov, Taliban still a fighting force.
Mission complete?
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Yes. Welcome to the Muslim world......

1) Afghanistan was never going to be Vermont. Pretending it is to criticize will always offer the protestor a satisfactory level of failure.

2) Nepotism and gross corruption is within their culture. Always has been. We are not there to change their culture. That's their job.

3) Historically, the Pashtun have always been acceptable stewards of governance by the various tribes in the territory. In fact, the periods of successs within this territory have alwys involved Pashtun governance. It is also widely accepted that the Pashtun have better administrative skills to organize.

4) The majority of Afghans do support the Afghan government. Favorable polls of Karzai have dipped over the last three years, but in the past has been as high as 90 percent.

5) The Talban will always be a fighting force until the Talban discovers what the Muslim Bortherhood did, which is that violence is not the path to true power anymore.


Our mission has long been accomplished. We are just lingering along to offer greater base stability among the ANA and the ANP. If the ANP and the ANA completely disrupt current governance after we leave then so be it. Our mission was to get Bin Laden and to rid the country of Taliban leadership. Well, Bin Laden is dead and the Taliban have found the comforts of Pakistani villages to lick their wounds. "Nation building" was introduced later by idiots who felt they needed to add a streak of morality to our mission of revenge.

.....And "Puppet" is a word overplayed anymore. Every protestor in the world calls his and other governments "puppets." Most of the world has voter fraud, even the U.S. Find a new tag word to mount your protests.
 
Serenity said:
No, it wouldn't be nice. It would catastrophic for millions of innocent people including millions of children whose only "crime" happens to be that they were born in the ME. Their lives are just as valuable as any other innocent civillian living anywhere else in the world.
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Like I said, warn them. Give them time to get out of dodge. History shows that the ME is nothing more than a hotbed for misery and wars. It needs to stop...one way or another.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Like I said, warn them. Give them time to get out of dodge. History shows that the ME is nothing more than a hotbed for misery and wars. It needs to stop...one way or another.
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And you'll accept those people into your country with open arms?
 
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Ben K. said:
And you'll accept accept those people into your country with open arms?
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On the condition that they follow our laws to the letter yes. If they start any fighting like whats been going on in the ME then they will automatically be kicked out.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Personally I think that everyone in the ME be giving a warning to leave by X date. Warn them that if they don't leave then they will be caught in the nuclear blasts that will turn the whole of the ME into one giant glass basin.

Would be nice. Not saying actually DO it. But it would be nice. Unfortenately the nuclear fallout would affect the rest of the world.

That whole area has been nothing but a warzone for the past couple thousand years at least. I doubt that it will stop any time with in the next 500 years. I wonder if its the water?
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I strongly disagree. Such an approach would sacrifice the vast majority of the region's people who are civilians. It would amount to one of history's worst crimes against humanity.
 
donsutherland1 said:
I strongly disagree. Such an approach would sacrifice the vast majority of the region's people who are civilians. It would amount to one of history's worst crimes against humanity.
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Victory is always forgiven. One doesn't have to look hard to see this truth.

Our wars have been such a mess since the unconditional surrrenders of World War II because we have made the mistake of using our unprecedented power to add a streak of morality to our military action. Survival has always been about slaughter, not right and wrong. Currently, we survive only because we can afford to play morality games in the absence of military and economic competition. Historically, our "moral high ground" has largely been about what we do for ourselves internally and refuse to do with our raw power externally. Actually applying our morality to our trigger pulling is what has damaged that moral high ground.

We have proven more than capable of climbing into the global gutter, play their game, and then climb out. We send troops over seas to murder and they return to raise families and pick up where they left off. Either we temporarily pull the trigger correctly or we put up walls and deny the existence of the land across the oceans. Either way, our morality needs to stay within our borders. It has no place in the old world where World Wars, Cold Wars, ethnic cleansings and genocides are constant.
 
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MSgt said:
Victory is always forgiven. One doesn't have to look hard to see this truth.

Our wars have been such a mess since the unconditional surrrenders of World War II because we have made the mistake of using our unprecedented power to add a streak of morality to our military action. Survival has always been about slaughter, not right and wrong. Currently, we survive only because we can afford to play morality games in the absence of military and economic competition. Historically, our "moral high ground" has largely been about what we do for ourselves internally and refuse to do with our raw power externally. Actually applying our morality to our trigger pulling is what has damaged that moral high ground.

We have proven more than capable of climbing into the global gutter, play their game, and then climb out. We send troops over seas to murder and they return to raise families and pick up where they left off. Either we temporarily pull the trigger correctly or we put up walls and deny the existence of the land across the oceans. Either way, our morality needs to stay within our borders. It has no place in the old world where World Wars, Cold Wars, ethnic cleansings and genocides are constant.
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Your views are the same as the terrorists.
 
Jerry said:
WTF would you know about combat operations or Afghanistan?
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Ohh im sorry for giving my opinion on the matter. You know being a taxpayer and not a "front line soldier" i guess that means i should just keep my mouth shut and not have an opinion on the matter. :roll:
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Ohh im sorry for giving my opinion on the matter. You know being a taxpayer and not a "front line soldier" i guess that means i should just keep my mouth shut and not have an opinion on the matter. :roll:
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Some evidently forget that the military is under civilian command.
 
MSgt said:
Yes. Welcome to the Muslim world......

1) Afghanistan was never going to be Vermont. Pretending it is to criticize will always offer the protestor a satisfactory level of failure.
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Ive never claimed its going to be Vermont.


2) Nepotism and gross corruption is within their culture. Always has been. We are not there to change their culture. That's their job.
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:shrug:


4) The majority of Afghans do support the Afghan government. Favorable polls of Karzai have dipped over the last three years, but in the past has been as high as 90 percent.
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Polls are no where near 90%. The highest poll ive seen is around 51% and the lowest ive seen is as low as 32%.



.....And "Puppet" is a word overplayed anymore. Every protestor in the world calls his and other governments "puppets." Most of the world has voter fraud, even the U.S. Find a new tag word to mount your protests.
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Voter fraud at the level of Karzai is not a "democracy".
 
Thrilla said:
what does that have to do with anything?
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Someone had suggested that a civilian should not have an opinion on military matters.
 
Catawba said:
Someone had suggested that a civilian should not have an opinion on military matters.
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"Civillians" who avoided military service shouldn't have any say on military manners.

How many deferments did Clinton get?
 
donsutherland1 said:
I strongly disagree. Such an approach would sacrifice the vast majority of the region's people who are civilians. It would amount to one of history's worst crimes against humanity.
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Again, Give them plenty of warning and time to get out.

Of course if they DON'T get out...sorry but I'm not going to feel any regret over it. All the wars that have gone on in that region through out history and modern times have no doubt killed far more people combined than turning it into a glass basin today would.

Note that I am perfectly willing to listen to alternatives that will actually WORK. But from my PoV I haven't seen anything else work yet. Diplomacy sure as hell hasn't. Sanctions sure don't either...all that really does anyways is hurt the poor people far more than those on top.

Hell, controlling the area and dividing it up hasn't even worked.
 
johnny_rebson said:
"Civillians" who avoided military service shouldn't have any say on military manners.
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Avoided military service in an optional war for US hegemony or one where we were actually attacked?
 
MSgt said:
Well, 11 years later why are any of us still there? It's time for all of us to leave. Besides, it's only France. One only has to look at their activity in Afghanistan and their casuality list in comparison to our truer allies to see how little France's absence is going to be felt. They boldly and pompously criticized our efforts to remove Saddam Hussein from Iraq even though they were among the first to rush an embassy into Baghdad after the deed was done. They criticized America for not doing enough in Libya even after leading the air campaign before handing it over to NATO "leadership" (when most of the bombing had ceased). So is France really dissapointing anybody? France is France.
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CheeseEatingSurrenderMonkey1.jpg
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Ohh im sorry for giving my opinion on the matter. You know being a taxpayer and not a "front line soldier" i guess that means i should just keep my mouth shut and not have an opinion on the matter. :roll:
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With any topic, you should know what you're talking about before opening your mouth.

What "notes" would you like to share with the group? I look forward to your links.
 
Catawba said:
No, I would not have invaded and occupied a country that neither attacked us, or were of any military threat to us. Same with Vietnam and Iraq.
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End war in Iraq, focus on Afghanistan, Barack Obama says

By Michael Muskal and Peter Nicholas

July 16, 2008

WASHINGTON – Presidential candidate Barack Obama, seeking to burnish his foreign policy credentials in advance of a trip to Europe and the Middle East next week, said this morning that ending the war in Iraq responsibly and defeating terrorist groups in Afghanistan were his top objectives.

Obama End War Afghanistan | Obama stands by his plan to end war - Los Angeles Times
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So your going to vote for Romney then? Just askin.
 
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