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Thread: French troop pullout from Afghanistan to start in July

  1. #71
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    Re: French troop pullout from Afghanistan to start in July

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    In comparison with the president, yes.

    Obama opposed war in Iraq, Romney supported it.

    Obama withdrew the troops from Iraq last year, Romney said it was too soon.

    Obama is withdrawing troops from Afghanistan., Romney says it is too quick.

    Obama has ordered cuts in military spending, Romney has pledged to increase military spending.
    And how many of these were positions Romney took after he realized he was viewed as too liberal by conservative voters?

    Did the Etch-A-Sketch comment go over your head?

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    Re: French troop pullout from Afghanistan to start in July

    Quote Originally Posted by johnny_rebson View Post
    And how many of these were positions Romney took after he realized he was viewed as too liberal by conservative voters?

    Did the Etch-A-Sketch comment go over your head?
    In that case he would be a ****ing idiot, as must have known there was a general election coming up. Either way he comes up on the short end.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: French troop pullout from Afghanistan to start in July

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Read more @: BBC News - French troop pullout from Afghanistan to start in July

    Now thats how you pull out America. Take some notes.

    Thoughts?
    Comments?
    Response? [/FONT][/COLOR]
    We need to take pointers from the French on out to retreat?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: French troop pullout from Afghanistan to start in July

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    In that case he would be a ****ing idiot, as must have known there was a general election coming up. Either way he comes up on the short end.

    Doubtful that you would be one that pulled a lever for Romney in any case, so why should your opinion matter any more than that of a fart in the wind?


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    Re: French troop pullout from Afghanistan to start in July

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Thanks for your opinions. I don't share them.
    You don't share them because you have spent too long shaping reality to fit the opinions you need to have. Look at the world for what it is and not how you want it to be and you would find that your opinions contradict. Your self-appointed chair of conscience has tied the idea of good morality to international law, which serves to protect "stability" at all costs. The idea that genocide and civilian slaughter, contained within a soveriegn border, is acceptable because international law allows for the apathy of greater nations who pick and choose when to apply morality. The truth is that our morality is tied up in our interests.

    This is why preserving Europe's stability by addressing "Yugoslavia" mattered and the "stability" of the African region (concerning Rwanda or Sudan) did not. And do you know why Bosnia was labeled a genocide by the UN and Rwanda was not? It's because international law commands that Western nations, especially the U.S., must act. How did you define your morality here? And how much of our trades/economic interests would have been threatened if Hitler had kept the Holocaust merely behind soveriegn German borders?

    And how quick are you to flog America for supporting dictators during the Cold War even though it served the UN international mission of "stability?" Today, you preach about how instable the region is without those dictators. How are you reconciling your idea of morality and international law evenly from one era to another?

    It is a myth that law equals morality. Laws serve to organize people. The Rule of Law offers guidance. In the end it allows people to shelve good morality. It allows people to be lazy. Ask any judge how much work goes into his job. He merely relies on the efforts of the past (precedence) and he lazily makes decisions to close dockets. Justice and good morality often doesn't even come in to play. International law offers the same thing to governments. This is why powerful governments of goodwill can point at "white" Bosnia and not at "black" Rwanda. The law allows it. So where's the morality?

    Martial Law inside Iraq for the first six months would have saved lives. But the stigma of martial law makes people uncomfortable so they tie the topic to a false sense of morality as the streets run with blood. The streets run with blood in Syria right now, but powerful nations of goodwill have allowed Russia and China (through international law) to dictate morality just to preserve the "stability" of their Syrian business partners.

    And the greatest contradiction of all is how we overlook (or forgive victory) the attocities of the past and have set the bar with the Greatest Generation. The Greatest Generation dropped two atomic bombs on civilian cities. They fire bombed Dressdan on the way to Berlin. Marines in the Pacific followed the lessons they learned from the Japanese at Guadel Canal and rarely took prisoners. Despite the mass slaughter of civilians this generation is awarded the title of "Greatness." Today, we chose to villify and demonize ourselves for three watreboarding cases and a frat party incident at Abu Ghraib. Certainly something to concern ourselves with, but hardly worth the depraved illogical criticisms that tidal waved into this generation. Perhaps we should have just dropped a couple nuclear bombs on a couple cities instead or rounded up Muslim citizens into containment camps.

    We have become a people that greatly attach our morality to the opinions of the world. The same world that needed saving three times in the 21st century because of their knack for genocide, devisation, and Leftist ideologies. The reason we were the ones that did the saving is not simply because we have two oceans separating us from the old world. It is because our greater sense of right and wrong went against the grain of the world. We stood on the outside of their world and injected it with what we used to be. Today, we have lost our way. Today, we choose to preserve the monarchies (dictators) instead of overthrowing them. Today, we enslave ourselves to outdated international laws to satisfy our own selfish apathies with the guise of morality as our guide. We think simply and criticize all measures to focus of long term tactics in order to deal with the world because short term temporary tactics are easier to understand. We have a media that focuses on criticism (not truth) to satisfy people's cynism who follow mindlessly behind the politician that say's "Hey stupid, follow me."

    I find that most of today's problem (for the American people) is that they are clueless to their history and of the big picture missions that have been undertaken for the last two hundred years. We have trained ourselves through improper academics to focus on Germany, not Europe - to focus on Japan, not the Pacific - to focus on Korea and Vietnam not the Cold War. And the Gulf War had everything to do with only Kuwait, right? We proved that America can play in the global gutter, come home, and carry on with our high values and morality. But we lost our way over the last few decades. Today, we prove that we can't play in the global gutter properly because we apply a haphazard idea of morality to the world that the world rejects. We wind up making our efforts more difficult because we are afraid of our image, despite not dropping a nuclear bomb since the "Greatest Generation" saved our loudest critics and keeping the world from another catastrophe ever since.

    We are a confused people because we assume to be able to have morality while following international law. This is fine for the rest of the world who needs a League of nations or a United Nations to force them behave. But it is not fine for us and this is why we struggle with words like "soveriegn," "stability," "morality." We truly are a nation of goodwill that may have the capability of recognizing past mistakes and the ability to shift society to erase repeat, but we screw up everytime we try to push that morality across the oceans.

    History is clear. Base your opinions on truth, not the Leftist fantasy of humanity and reality.

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    Re: French troop pullout from Afghanistan to start in July

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Under civilian control, there is the possibility of self correction through elections or impeachments. Nixon was impeached during Vietnam, and the Republicans lost the presidency during the Iraq war.

    Under authoritarian control self correction is not as likely.
    Well, nobody has suggested that the military be removed from civilian over sight. There you go trying to make things black and white again. What has been suggested is that history is clear about the results of non-serving citizens interjecting tactics upon serving practitioners. Nothing is more dangerous than the politician (or civilian) that looks at the military and states that he knows "exactly what to do."

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    Re: French troop pullout from Afghanistan to start in July

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    truth is that our morality is tied up in our interests.
    We obviously were raised differently. My morality doesn't include killing others to make ourselves richer.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: French troop pullout from Afghanistan to start in July

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    We obviously were raised differently. My morality doesn't include killing others to make ourselves richer.
    That's a helluva accusation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: French troop pullout from Afghanistan to start in July

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    That's a helluva accusation.
    Then obviously you haven't read his support of wars for hegemony
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: French troop pullout from Afghanistan to start in July

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    We obviously were raised differently. My morality doesn't include killing others to make ourselves richer.
    Your morality, tied to international laws that dismiss morality and hinge on "stability", is false. Once again, your "morality" has nothing to do with the reality. "Making ourselves richer" has never been a mission. Our mission has been to preserve the American opportunity and lifestyle so that individuals like you can make yourself rich. Insisting that your sense of morality greets the world that you live in does nothing constructive and acts as a wall from understanding. You are free to explain this......

    Revolutionary War - Freedom

    War of 1812 - Freedom

    Civil War - Freedom

    War in the Pacific - Defense & Revenge on the Japanese

    Afghanistan - Defense & Revenge on Islamist extremists


    With these five events aside, explain the rest. Explain what the majority of all our activity abroad was about. Explain what deploying our troops across these oceans have menat to the world. I can explain what each one was about and what it meant to the world. And it isn't as simple as a gaffe like "oil." An entire world hasn't folowed us down the path we paved and guard today because of Exxon.

    And my learning and understanding go beyond my early years of being raised.

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