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Thread: French troop pullout from Afghanistan to start in July

  1. #61
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    Re: French troop pullout from Afghanistan to start in July

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    True, but Romney thinks Obama's schedule for withdrawal is too soon just as he thought was Obama's withdrawal from Iraq was too soon. Like in 08, I will go with the least hawkish of the viable candidates.
    I guess you have your choice. Live in tent cities with your less hawkish President. OR the economy recovering with the Congress having 19 more Republicans in the House and 13 in the Senate. It doesn't matter whose President.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

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    Re: French troop pullout from Afghanistan to start in July

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    We have a corrupt puppet head in power elected via electoral fraud, nepotism, majority of Afghans dont support the gov, Taliban still a fighting force.
    Mission complete?
    I agree Obama's got to go.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

  3. #63
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    Re: French troop pullout from Afghanistan to start in July

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post
    I guess you have your choice. Live in tent cities with your less hawkish President. OR the economy recovering with the Congress having 19 more Republicans in the House and 13 in the Senate. It doesn't matter whose President.
    If I had not lived through the effects of 30 years of trickle down economics, financial deregulation and increased military spending, I might be able to swallow the very same proposals again from Romney.

    But, I have, so I will not let that dog bite me again.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: French troop pullout from Afghanistan to start in July

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    If I had not lived through the effects of 30 years of trickle down economics, financial deregulation and increased military spending, I might be able to swallow the very same proposals again from Romney.

    But, I have, so I will not let that dog bite me again.
    I went out on my own at age 21 in 1978. I struggled through the Carter fiasco and all I see in Jimmy Carter all over again in the White House now. Stagnant economy and jobs with inflation on the rise, only the depressed housing markets are keeping the inflation rate artificially low.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

  5. #65
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    Re: French troop pullout from Afghanistan to start in July

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Your views are the same as the terrorists.
    Historically, victory is often achieved by those who maintain a will to win. How much good American morality was applied to Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Did we choose morality or did we choose to win? And how about Dresden? How much morality went into achieving the goal to Berlin? I realize you protestors like to pretend that you can categorize the actions of the "Greatest Generation" differently that everything ever since and that you hold the key to morality as you really only preach the immorality of apathy, but I see through people like you. I choose to be blunt about reality. This makes people like you uncomfortable because it strips the fantasy of your reality away.

    Numbers and technology count, but not always. Often enough, the will to win achieves victory after uphill climbs. Revolutions throughout history have gone up against superior organized military numbers and won. Insurgents have had episodes of victory in history over their oppressor establishments. Today's terrorists know what they want (though they feed you lies about what that is) and they absolutely have the will to achieve their goals (suicide bombs, IEDs, media spectacles). We haven't had the will to achieve our military goals since 1945 because we became powerful enough to play with the lives of our troops with no consequence to our civilization. We added tens of thousands of casualities to Korea, simply because for a year we applied our morality to the subject of repatriation while stripping oursleves of the morality to preserve life. This was a first in history, by the way. Fast forward to today and we see where the morality of "you break it, you bought it" has cost thousands of lives in Iraq and Afghanistan. Occupation 101 called for a heavier troop invasion to Iraq and temprary martial law after baghdad fell, but applying our sense of morality stripped the martial law capability away. In the end, this cost lives. We maintain our position in Afghanistan still because the morality of nation building has us in chains. The old British tactic of the "punitive strike" lacks a measure of morality, but it would save lives and treasure and is more in line with the protestor's bitching (showing a lack of morality).

    We confuse our morality and we have a backwards way of applyng it. Somehow, according to the protestor, it was immoral to invade Iraq, but perfectly moral to continue starving them under the UN mission. It was perfectly moral to preserve our power for events in Europe (Bosnia/Kosovo), but perfectly moral to ignore events in Africa (Rwanda/Sudan). The tactic of hiding a lack of morality under false morality is beyond tired. It's a tactic used by all political parties. Only in this world does apathy and a lack of tactical vision equal good morality and the use of ancient international laws merely add to the illusion.

    So, when I stated that "our morality needs to stay within our borders" it seems to have flown over your head. Your eagerness to think simply in order to insult doesn't serve you well. This is another aspect of how you haven't grown in the last few years over these matters. Despite everything that has been going on in the MENA you are hopelessly stuck to your complaining of February 2003.

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    Re: French troop pullout from Afghanistan to start in July

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Someone had suggested that a civilian should not have an opinion on military matters.
    Did civilians **** up Vietnam or did the military?

    Did the military **** up Iraq or did Rumsfeld?

    Our greatest military achievements have come when civilians got the hell out of the way. How many civilians controlled the activity in the Pacific or in Europe? How about the Gulf War? Why did it take Patreaus to turn Iraq around and not Rumsfeld? What did these events have in common?

    Now flip it. Do you want the military to assume control of American infrastructure? How about Generals dictating and forcing opinions upon governance or court systems? You wouldn't. So why do you believe a non-serving civillian injecting his opinion upon military practitioners a great thing? Would you tell your brain surgeon to move over because "you got it?" Why even have a general when a non-serving suit in Washington can do the job?

    For that matter, what about cops? Did ATF agents **** up the southern border with the gun walking scandel or did civilians in Washington?

    Practitionaers are often shoved aside by elected officials who think popularity gives them experience. Their sheep constituents make the same mistake.

    This is just one more thing that makes your fantasy of reality uncomfortable.
    Last edited by MSgt; 06-12-12 at 01:49 PM.

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  7. #67
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    Re: French troop pullout from Afghanistan to start in July

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Historically, victory is often achieved by those who maintain a will to win. How much good American morality was applied to Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Did we choose morality or did we choose to win? And how about Dresden? How much morality went into achieving the goal to Berlin? I realize you protestors like to pretend that you can categorize the actions of the "Greatest Generation" differently that everything ever since and that you hold the key to morality as you really only preach the immorality of apathy, but I see through people like you. I choose to be blunt about reality. This makes people like you uncomfortable because it strips the fantasy of your reality away.

    Numbers and technology count, but not always. Often enough, the will to win achieves victory after uphill climbs. Revolutions throughout history have gone up against superior organized military numbers and won. Insurgents have had episodes of victory in history over their oppressor establishments. Today's terrorists know what they want (though they feed you lies about what that is) and they absolutely have the will to achieve their goals (suicide bombs, IEDs, media spectacles). We haven't had the will to achieve our military goals since 1945 because we became powerful enough to play with the lives of our troops with no consequence to our civilization. We added tens of thousands of casualities to Korea, simply because for a year we applied our morality to the subject of repatriation while stripping oursleves of the morality to preserve life. This was a first in history, by the way. Fast forward to today and we see where the morality of "you break it, you bought it" has cost thousands of lives in Iraq and Afghanistan. Occupation 101 called for a heavier troop invasion to Iraq and temprary martial law after baghdad fell, but applying our sense of morality stripped the martial law capability away. In the end, this cost lives. We maintain our position in Afghanistan still because the morality of nation building has us in chains. The old British tactic of the "punitive strike" lacks a measure of morality, but it would save lives and treasure and is more in line with the protestor's bitching (showing a lack of morality).

    We confuse our morality and we have a backwards way of applyng it. Somehow, according to the protestor, it was immoral to invade Iraq, but perfectly moral to continue starving them under the UN mission. It was perfectly moral to preserve our power for events in Europe (Bosnia/Kosovo), but perfectly moral to ignore events in Africa (Rwanda/Sudan). The tactic of hiding a lack of morality under false morality is beyond tired. It's a tactic used by all political parties. Only in this world does apathy and a lack of tactical vision equal good morality and the use of ancient international laws merely add to the illusion.

    So, when I stated that "our morality needs to stay within our borders" it seems to have flown over your head. Your eagerness to think simply in order to insult doesn't serve you well. This is another aspect of how you haven't grown in the last few years over these matters. Despite everything that has been going on in the MENA you are hopelessly stuck to your complaining of February 2003.


    Thanks for your opinions. I don't share them.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  8. #68
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    Re: French troop pullout from Afghanistan to start in July

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Did civilians **** up Vietnam or did the military?

    Did the military **** up Iraq or did Rumsfeld?
    Under civilian control, there is the possibility of self correction through elections or impeachments. Nixon was impeached during Vietnam, and the Republicans lost the presidency during the Iraq war.

    Under authoritarian control self correction is not as likely.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  9. #69
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    Re: French troop pullout from Afghanistan to start in July

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    True, but Romney thinks Obama's schedule for withdrawal is too soon just as he thought was Obama's withdrawal from Iraq was too soon.

    Like in 08, I will go with the least hawkish of the viable candidates.
    You think Romney is hawkish???

    Romney is a liberal pretending to be a conservative in order to get the nomination.

  10. #70
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    Re: French troop pullout from Afghanistan to start in July

    Quote Originally Posted by johnny_rebson View Post
    You think Romney is hawkish???

    Romney is a liberal pretending to be a conservative in order to get the nomination.
    In comparison with the president, yes.

    Obama opposed war in Iraq, Romney supported it.

    Obama withdrew the troops from Iraq last year, Romney said it was too soon.

    Obama is withdrawing troops from Afghanistan., Romney says it is too quick.

    Obama has ordered cuts in military spending, Romney has pledged to increase military spending.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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