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Thread: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, negativ

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    Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Well, that's an incredibly stupid calculation since the boat was sinking when Obama took office. You don't really expect anyone to take that seriously, do you?

    It's kinda like setting the house on fire when you move out, then blaming the next occupant for the damage because it takes him a while to extinguish the flames. Like, duh.
    Obama volunteered. And all he has managed is more holes in the boat.

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    Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    The United states is in serious debt and the "progressives" debate the past rather than the future. The stock market responded to what happened in Wisconsin with the hope that this trend will continue in November. That is the only hope America has right now.
    Judging by the DOW's performance over the past 3 years or so, debt is obviously not killing off investment.

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    Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

    Quote Originally Posted by Hare View Post
    Judging by the DOW's performance over the past 3 years or so, debt is obviously not killing off investment.
    The stock market went into a serious and unrealistic panic based swoon for a few months at which time many investors made money when it inevitably came back to reality. This is the point BHO supporters like to look to when making the claim that this president had something to with healing or helping the economy. But of course it was realized that many stocks were seriously under priced but this had more to do with the beliefs in these companies than anything Barry Obama said or did. Do you have any idea what he did to improve the stock market?

    You really don't. It is just thrown out there in the hope that someone may actually believe Obama had some magic formula that caused the stock market to rise. You obviously know nothing about the investment market at all.

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    Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

    Quote Originally Posted by Hare View Post
    Judging by the DOW's performance over the past 3 years or so, debt is obviously not killing off investment.
    The DOW is propped up artificially right now due to bailouts, corporate austerity measures, and Fed meddling.

    Ask the Euro Zone how debt is effecting them right now.


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    Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    The stock market went into a serious and unrealistic panic based swoon for a few months at which time many investors made money when it inevitably came back to reality. This is the point BHO supporters like to look to when making the claim that this president had something to with healing or helping the economy. But of course it was realized that many stocks were seriously under priced but this had more to do with the beliefs in these companies than anything Barry Obama said or did. Do you have any idea what he did to improve the stock market?

    You really don't. It is just thrown out there in the hope that someone may actually believe Obama had some magic formula that caused the stock market to rise. You obviously know nothing about the investment market at all.
    His policies have zero correlation to the DOW's success, you implied earlier that debt is somehow discouraging investment, and pointed to walker's win and the corresponding jump in stock prices as proof of such phenomenon. To make the connection between increasing deficits and a lack of investment and growth in general, you would be forced to ignore multiple historical time periods that emphatically refute this belief.

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    Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    The DOW is propped up artificially right now due to bailouts, corporate austerity measures, and Fed meddling.

    Ask the Euro Zone how debt is effecting them right now.


    j-mac
    Some specific examples would be preferable.

    The Euro Zone situation is not directly comparable to ours.

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    Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

    Quote Originally Posted by Hare View Post
    Some specific examples would be preferable.

    The Euro Zone situation is not directly comparable to ours.
    No. But things are so bad in Europe, money is coming here that would otherwise not. Our only current saving grace, when we suck like we do, is that Europe sucks worse.

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    Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    No. But things are so bad in Europe, money is coming here that would otherwise not. Our only current saving grace, when we suck like we do, is that Europe sucks worse.
    Somehow I don't buy into the theory that the Euro collapsing is a positive factor going forward for our situation. If you think of Europe in terms of being a large consumer, further worsening of their financial woes will only further complicate and elongate our own.

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    Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

    Quote Originally Posted by Hare View Post
    Debt and anemic job growth don't necessarily go hand and hand, a quick glance at Reagan's tenure should tell you that.
    Debt on the scale we now have (over 100% of GDP) is a NEW thing. Federal "budgets" now include deficits of 40%. Every dollar that the gov't spends comes from the "private economy". Every dollar that the gov't borrows must be repaid, with interest, by taxation of the "private economy". The rich did not get that way by being stupid, they see that the gov't printing money is causing inflation, even if the gov't "recomputes" the CPI to show a far lower inflation rate than reality. The businessman knows that taxation MUST increase in the future, simply to repay the massive gov't debt, those extra taxes will be levied on them directly, or on their customer base limitting their future purchasing power, so they see no reason for "better times ahead" until the gov't is able to stabalize and live within its means.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hare View Post
    Entitlement spending and accumulation of debt is hardly exclusive to liberals. On a side note, what new entitlements are you speaking of?
    Welfare spending is going up, SS/Medicare retirement benefit costs are going up (and its revenue is now "temporarily" being cut), more people are getting UI benefits and food stamps and there is, of course, the elephant in the room of ObamaCare to drive the cost of employee health benefits WAY up. Unfunded mandates look neat to the DC morons, but have REAL costs for the private economy that must do the paying. Is it "free" to add 1/3 more years to each dependent's coverage period on a family health plan? Is it "free" to deny insurance companies the right to refuse or charge much higher premiums on a "new" policy given to a very sick (or even dying) person? What may seem free or "off budget" to the CBO, as it applies to gov't costs, does not fool the businessman that must account for that REAL extra cost. Money required to be spent on "new" medical insurance (or gov't fines) may be a great thing for the medical industry (and gov't) but VERY bad for all other industries as those dollars will no longer be available to the public to be spent on other things instead. To expand business and hire more workers, in very shakey economic times, is not very wise, thus many businesses are stuck in the "wait and see mode".
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 06-09-12 at 10:47 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

    Quote Originally Posted by Hare View Post
    Somehow I don't buy into the theory that the Euro collapsing is a positive factor going forward for our situation. If you think of Europe in terms of being a large consumer, further worsening of their financial woes will only further complicate and elongate our own.
    Trust me. I do not think it positve either. However, the world is begging for a place to put its money, not because the depository is the lesser of evils, but rather because they have their crap together.

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