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Thread: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, negativ

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    Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Obama's statement wasn't restricted to the federal government. In fact a lot of the stimulus bill's aid was directed to the states so that they could avoid mass layoffs. And, point of fact, Politifact rated Krugman's statement "true", which it obviously was when you look at the bls data.
    The unemployment level of state workers is 4.2%, I think they are doing just fine. In some states they do even better , like Nevada for instance.

    37 of 17,000 state workers lose jobs from budget cuts - Friday, July 1, 2011 | 2 a.m. - Las Vegas Sun

    A fifth round of budget cuts will take effect today, as the state implements the budget passed by the Legislature and signed by the governor. To hear the chorus of elected officials, both Democrats and Republicans, government has been cut to the bone as the Great Recession has dragged on.

    But in one respect, the new budget’s effect is slight. Out of the almost 17,000 state employees, only 37 have received layoff notices effective today, the start of the new fiscal year.

    State workers have once again largely escaped this recession’s cruelest effect — job loss — with a combination of increased retirements, elimination of vacant positions and cuts to pay and benefits.

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    Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

    Did he leave?
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

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    Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    The unemployment level of state workers is 4.2%, I think they are doing just fine. In some states they do even better , like Nevada for
    What does that even mean? The unemployment level of state workers is, by definition, 0%.

    But nationally state and local governments have shed well over half a million jobs since the start of the recession. This is in contrast to recessions under Reagan, GHWB, and GWB, when unemployment was ameliorated by increased government hiring.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    What does that even mean? The unemployment level of state workers is, by definition, 0%.

    But nationally state and local governments have shed well over half a million jobs since the start of the recession. This is in contrast to recessions under Reagan, GHWB, and GWB, when unemployment was ameliorated by increased government hiring.
    It means very few state workers have lost their jobs. It means the public sector is "doing just fine". It means obama as usual was fulla ****. It means we don't need to go further into debt to hire more gov workers and if we did it would not help the economy, it would indeed harm it.

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    Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    It means very few state workers have lost their jobs. It means the public sector is "doing just fine". It means obama as usual was fulla ****. It means we don't need to go further into debt to hire more gov workers and if we did it would not help the economy, it would indeed harm it.
    It means nothing of the kind. The fact is that the public sector has been shedding jobs for three years.

    While Friday's report of weak growth in U.S. March payrolls raised concerns about the pace of private-sector hiring, local government jobs remain a drag on the recovery, one that is not anticipated to end soon.

    State and local governments for a time were able to shield public safety and education workforces from harmful cuts as the recession deepened. The 2009 federal stimulus fund helped offset lost tax revenue, but that money is gone.

    Now, many cities and counties nationwide are facing the same dilemma as Chesapeake. Squeezed by depressed property tax revenues and cuts in state aid, they are chipping away at their workforces.

    The result? The last three years of job losses at the state and local government level has been the most dramatic since Labor Department records began in 1955, according to a Reuters analysis.

    Public-sector employees tended to have more job security, which in some ways helps during weak economic climates, as their steady demand for goods and services spread through the economy. The recent trend, conversely, can make things worse.

    "If public-sector employment had grown since June 2009 by the average amount it grew in the three previous recoveries (2.8 percent) instead of shrinking by 2.5 percent, there would be 1.2 million more public-sector jobs in the U.S. economy today," said the Economic Policy Institute in a recent report, which included federal employees in the calculation.

    Local governments have cut 482,000 jobs since the beginning of 2009. They added jobs in just two months since 2011 started. Previously, states only had two consecutive years of layoffs, 1995 and 1996, when they scrapped about 57,000 jobs, or about one-third of the 150,000 cut since the beginning of 2009.

    FEATURE: Despite recovery, US public employees face more layoffs | Reuters
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    It means nothing of the kind. The fact is that the public sector has been shedding jobs for three years.
    And there you have the liberal way of thinking. Public sector hasn’t grown as fast as it has in recent years and those jobs that never existed in the first place are counted by you as lost jobs. I just don’t know how to respond to that warped logic, I’m speechless.

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    Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    And there you have the liberal way of thinking. Public sector hasn’t grown as fast as it has in recent years and those jobs that never existed in the first place are counted by you as lost jobs. I just don’t know how to respond to that warped logic, I’m speechless.
    No, you're factually, undeniably wrong and Adam is right. The public sector has been shedding jobs on the whole for the past few years, not adding them. He even cited an article that showed that public sector jobs were being shed. Why do you have a problem with facts? Do you even read the posts you're responding to?
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 06-12-12 at 09:48 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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    Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    And there you have the liberal way of thinking. Public sector hasnít grown as fast as it has in recent years and those jobs that never existed in the first place are counted by you as lost jobs. I just donít know how to respond to that warped logic, Iím speechless.
    Speechless indeed, did you completely ignore the article you're referring to?

    Local governments have cut 482,000 jobs since the beginning of 2009.
    No "liberal" or "warped" logic at work here, state and local governments have not only foregone annual increases in public sector employment, they have layed off large amounts of employees as well.

    EDIT: Beat me to it.

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    Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

    Here is the truth, the real numbers, you libs are freakin insane!

    The industry with the lowest unemployment rate is...

    Posted by: Michael Mandel on April 03

    …ah, come on, you know, the answer. It’s a good time to be part of the government.

    According to today’s job market report, the unemployment rate for government workers is 2.8%.
    The next lowest is 4.5% for private education and health services. Oddly enough, the unemployment rate for financial activities is only 6.8%.


    The industry with the lowest unemployment rate is... - BusinessWeek

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    Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post

    And there you have the liberal way of thinking. Public sector hasnít grown as fast as it has in recent years and those jobs that never existed in the first place are counted by you as lost jobs. I just donít know how to respond to that warped logic, Iím speechless.

    Federal + state + local ...

    Jan/2001: 20,835,000
    May/2003: 21,618,000
    Jan/2009: 22,576,000
    May/2012: 21,969,000


    Bureau of Labor Statistics Data
    Bureau of Labor Statistics Data
    Bureau of Labor Statistics Data

    During Bush's first 40 months in office, 783,000 public sector jobs were added ... 1,741,000 were added during his 8 years. Compared with the 40 months under Obama where 607,000 public sector jobs were lost.

    Had there been an increase of 783,000 public sector jobs like we had during Bush's first 40 months, the U3 unemployment rate would be at around 7.3%.

    Furthermore, in typical rightwing hypocrisy, Conservatives, who say they are for smaller government, cheered for Bush who saw an increase in the public sector of 8% and they jeer for Obama who's seen a decrease of 3%.




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