Page 16 of 21 FirstFirst ... 61415161718 ... LastLast
Results 151 to 160 of 202

Thread: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, negativ

  1. #151
    #NeverTrump
    a351's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Space Coast
    Last Seen
    09-09-17 @ 08:54 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    6,902

    Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Just to say that Reagan raised the debt is not good enough. Now I know that libs didn't like the downfall of communism in the USSR, but I never knew how much until now...
    What were you saying about using opinions in lieu of ya know.. facts? Filing this one under the "opinion" category would be quite kind. I could think of several other labels that would be far more accurate.

  2. #152
    Sometimes wrong

    ttwtt78640's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Uhland, Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    34,669

    Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    No it's not. It's basically the SAME thing as 97% of GDP. You've simply adopted the stupid right wing talking point of claiming 98% is bad but 101% is certain death.

    Singapore is over 100%. Japan is over 200%. Look around, get some facts, wean off the right wing talk media teat.
    So, in your view, all is well with running 40% federal deficits "until things get better"?
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  3. #153
    Sage
    Dittohead not!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    The Golden State
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    41,580

    Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Oh YOU think he's right? You do? Well, call the press, stop the country, and hit the airwaves with a "Breaking News" special report....Ditto agrees with Sheik Yerbuti on something....Man, I never saw that one coming..... Oh, and BTW, just because you agree with him doesn't make it fact either....
    He believes that "prosperity of the level I believe you're talking about is still years away"

    fact one. He believes that.

    "prosperity of the level I believe you're talking about is still years away"

    Opinion. One we share, but still an opinion. Do you have a different opinion on that matter?

    "but I also believe it has nothing to do with who will be president."

    Fact: He believes this.

    "it has nothing to do with who will be president"

    Opinion. I know yours is different.



    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    And what was the reason behind that one? IIRC, at the time we were spending like wild on defense, pushing the USSR to do the same which ultimately caused them to fall. Remember context means everything. Just to say that Reagan raised the debt is not good enough. Now I know that libs didn't like the downfall of communism in the USSR, but I never knew how much until now...
    Fact: The USSR fell before Bush became president.

    Fact: The discussion was about the housing market, not about deficit spending.

    Opinion (mine): Bush is not to blame for the housing market crash.
    Opinion (Sheik's): Bush is to blame for the housing market crash.

    Whose opinion do you share?

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Hmmm....Checking again....Nope, not a single link....So no, regardless of what you think Ditto, your opinion means opinion, not fact.

    j-mac
    Keep checking. He's providing them for your perusal.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  4. #154
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Last Seen
    08-25-16 @ 08:31 PM
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    11,265

    Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post

    And what was the reason behind that one? IIRC, at the time we were spending like wild on defense, pushing the USSR to do the same which ultimately caused them to fall. Remember context means everything. Just to say that Reagan raised the debt is not good enough. Now I know that libs didn't like the downfall of communism in the USSR, but I never knew how much until now...
    The dumbest story ever told by the right was that the Soviet Union collapsed because it bankrupted itself trying to keep its defenses up with the U.S. When in fact, Gorbachev knew that would happen and sought to avoid it.



    Glasnost and perestroika were the biggest contributors to the downfall of the Soviet Union. No doubt the arms race contributed to hurting their economy, but so did Chernobyl and their 10 year war in Afghanistan. And their economy was already hurting before then.

    By the way, the biggest evidence that Reagan didn't defeat the Soviet Union is easily found in the fact that their failed economy wasn't the only reason the U.S.S.R. collapsed; but also political (perestroika).


    Quote Originally Posted by globalsecurity

    Mikhail S. Gorbachev entered office in March 1985 determined to scrap old assumptions about Soviet foreign policy. He had drawn lessons from the return of Cold War tensions in the early 1980s -- and they scared him. The "old thinking" believed that the USSR would emerge victorious in the Cold War if it continued building up its arsenal and fostering "progressive" regimes in the Third World in places like Angola, Ethiopia, and especially Afghanistan. Gorbachev's "new thinking" sought to reorganize and revitalize the Soviet system; but to do so required a favorable international situation to relieve the material burden of arms competition with the West.

    The first step in the end of the Cold War came when Mikhail S. Gorbachev implicitly abandoned the Brezhnev Doctrine. On 14 April 1988, the Governments of Pakistan and Afghanistan, with the United States and Soviet Union serving as guarantors, signed an agreement known as the Geneva accords. This included five major documents, which, among other things, establishe a timetable that ensured full Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan by 15 February 1989. Gorbachev demanded that the retreat be orderly and dignified -- he didn't want television images reminiscent of the chaotic 1975 US pullout from Vietnam. "We must not appear before the world in our underwear or even without any," he told the Politburo inner circle. "A defeatist position is not possible." The withdrawal was intended as a sign of conciliation toward the West and reassurance to the East Europeans, but it encouraged others to challenge Soviet power.

    The second act of the drama began in the fall of 1989 with peaceful revolutions in Eastern and Central Europe (except Romania) and the fall of the Soviet "outer empire." Shortly after Poland's electorate voted the Communists out of government in June 1989, Gorbachev announced that the Soviet Union would not interfere with the internal affairs of the Eastern European countries. By October, Hungary and Czechoslovakia followed Poland's example.

    On 09 November 1989, the East German Government opened the Berlin Wall. East Germany, the center of contention throughout the Cold War, was united with West Germany and integrated into NATO. As one historian noted, in Poland communism took ten years, in Hungary ten months, in East Germany ten weeks, and in Czechoslovakia ten days to disappear. In Romania -- the bloody exception to the rule of peaceful transition -- the end came with the execution of Nicolae Ceausescu and his wife on Christmas Day. The collapse of the Warsaw Pact a year later plus the 1990 Treaty on Conventional Armed Forces in Europe [that substantially reduced Soviet superiority in conventional forces in Europe] resulted in a stronger Western alliance -- so strong that the US could redeploy forces from Europe to the Persian Gulf for use against Iraq.

    The third and final act closed with the 1991 dissolution of the USSR. By 1989 Gorbachev's domestic reforms had run into serious trouble, and the economy went into a tailspin. The centrifugal forces in the "outer empire" stimulated and accelerated those in the "inner empire", as the Soviet republics sought sovereignty and then independence. As the center disintegrated and Gorbachev opened up the political process with glasnost (openness), the old communist "barons" in the republics saw the handwriting on the wall and became nationalists; they "first of all attacked the USSR government . . . and subsequently destroyed the USSR." Asked when he decided to secede from the USSR, Ukrainian party boss Leonid Kravchuk replied: "1989" [he did so in mid-1990]. Each of the USSR's republics, as they declared independence or sovereignty, also adopted statements by the republic leaderships on service in the armed forces, including the creation of their own military forces.


    Collapse of the Soviet Union - 1989-1991
    Last edited by Sheik Yerbuti; 06-10-12 at 06:31 PM.

  5. #155
    Sage
    Karl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    12-18-14 @ 09:35 AM
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    5,561

    Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    We are now at levels of debt, and deficit, relative to GDP, that are far beyond anything Reagan, or any other President. Your statement was completely unfounded.
    FY 2011 deficit is 8.7% of GDP.
    FY 1983 deficit was 6.0% of GDP. Tickle-me Reagan was president in 1983, for the historically challenged.

    8.7% is "far beyond" 6.0%? You sure?

    Highest annual deficit as a percentage of GDP was FY 1943: 30.3% (falling to a mere 21.5% in 1945). (source: Historical Federal Receipt and Outlay Summary )

    Gross federal debt as a percentage of GDP averaged 104.6% for the period 1944-1950 (for FY 2011 it's 102.6%) (source: Federal Debt 1940-2017)

    It appears quite conclusive that your statement was completely unfounded.

    As a side note, I now await the right to tells us we're not fighting an overseas war

  6. #156
    Sage
    Karl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    12-18-14 @ 09:35 AM
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    5,561

    Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

    Quote Originally Posted by Hare View Post
    Close, but not quite the levels we reached immediately following WW2.

    Ooh! Ooh! Look how that debt spiked up after tickle-me Reagan got into office!!! Bad Ronnie... baaaaad Ronnie!
    Last edited by Karl; 06-10-12 at 06:35 PM.

  7. #157
    Sage
    Karl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    12-18-14 @ 09:35 AM
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    5,561

    Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I don;t recall Regan being $16 trillion in debt and with nothing on the horizon but more debt. [...]
    How could you miss the graph that Hare posted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hare View Post
    Close, but not quite the levels we reached immediately following WW2.

    What do you see beginning in 1981? Doesn't it look a lot like nothing on the horizon but more debt?

    At least until Clinton could bring it under control, but then Bush II drove us off a neo-con cliff again

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    It was still nowhere near $16 trillion dollars and there was obviously an end in sight. [...]
    Yes. That end was Democrat president Bill Clinton.
    Last edited by Karl; 06-10-12 at 06:42 PM.

  8. #158
    Sage
    Karl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    12-18-14 @ 09:35 AM
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    5,561

    Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Debt on the scale we now have (over 100% of GDP) is a NEW thing. [...]
    No it's not. It's basically the SAME thing as 97% of GDP. You've simply adopted the stupid right wing talking point of claiming 98% is bad but 101% is certain death. Singapore is over 100%. Japan is over 200%. Look around, get some facts, wean off the right wing talk media teat.
    So, in your view, all is well with running 40% federal deficits "until things get better"?
    Since I'm sure you meant to say "yes, I see your point -- my bad", I will wait until you edit your post and then say "thank you, don't sweat it"

  9. #159
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Last Seen
    12-29-15 @ 10:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    3,747

    Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    How could you miss the graph that Hare posted?



    What do you see beginning in 1981? Doesn't it look a lot like nothing on the horizon but more debt?

    At least until Clinton could bring it under control, but then Bush II drove us off a neo-con cliff again


    Yes. That end was Democrat president Bill Clinton.
    As a percent of GDP, Bush was fine with deficits. So was Reagan. That is what your graph shows. What the graph also shows is that Obama is taking it off a cliff. With no results to show except failure.

  10. #160
    Guru

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Last Seen
    11-24-13 @ 11:44 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    3,001

    Re: Obama says private sector 'doing fine,' then Standard & Poor keeps downgrade, neg

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    So trickle down doesn't work.
    If it doesn't work for you then it's your own fault.

    You sound like a typical liberal democrat who expects too much money for your blue collar job.

    If union members and blue collar workers were willing to take meaningful pay cuts, we wouldn't have to send those jobs to China.

Page 16 of 21 FirstFirst ... 61415161718 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •