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Thread: Curt Schilling bounced from big show

  1. #61
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    Re: Curt Schilling bounced from big show

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    So, is the seething hatred for Shilling because he's a conservative... because he's religious... or a combination of the two?
    Just to be clear, his company cancelled health insurance on his employees, without telling them. Apparently they found out right before the layoffs when a guy went in for chemo and found out he was no longer insured. The people in his company are not even eligible for COBRA due to this. The outrage over that has nothing to do with his political positions.

    Now, onto the rest of the story: Gamasutra - News - 38 Studios' Downfall: The Gamasutra Report

    The above linked article has the best breakdown of events that I have found. Unlike most, it does not demonize nor over-inflate any one. Schilling sounds like a basically decent guy who made some mistakes. Politics did play a big part in the events, as did a large number of misrepresentations.

    A 38 Studios employee corroborates, pointing out some of what he says are Chafee's most egregious acts of misinformation: Calling a private loan effectively cosigned by the state "taxpayer money" makes it appear that the state has already paid the cost, instead of being responsible for it in the event of failure.

    And the highly-publicized million-dollar payment wasn't a loan payment as Chafee claimed, states the employee: "It was actually a weird extra fee to the board he was on, which had nothing to do with payments and interest -- [which was] already handled by setting aside a full third of the loan for that purpose," he adds. "This made it seem like we had somehow burned through all $75 million, including the money set aside to do this."

    Chafee also publicly claimed 38's first release, the single-player RPG Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning, "failed," artificially deflating its sales numbers and suggesting it was a commercial flop -- which it wasn't. It's true that the game didn't sell enough to fulfill a clause whereby publisher Electronic Arts would start paying a cut to the studio, but employees say potential profits for Reckoning were never part of the budgeting plans for 38.
    It is a long but fascinating article. If nothing else, you have to feel for the employees at 38 studios, who no matter how you look at it got something of a raw deal. The big money people, the executives, the governor of RI, Schilling, they will all be fine. Some of the employees however, well:

    "While the average company salary has been quoted around $86,000, many many individuals were making far less than that, and living paycheck to paycheck," says a 38 Studios employee. "When we didn't get paid, it immediately became very difficult for a number of people, but they continued coming in and working anyway. As it seemed like things were not being resolved, people started bringing in extra food and leaving it in the kitchen for anyone who needed it to grab."
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    Once again, the crux of this isn't that he took advantage of these programs, it's his comments and those of his fellow conservatives suggesting the practice isn't a good one. Therein lies the hypocrisy.

    Not sure why that concept is escaping you and others from the right.

    Liken it to a preacher yammering about family values then banging his secretary behind his wife's back.

    Same concept.

    Walk the walk...
    He took advantage of existing programs that he has to pay for as a taxpayer. Do we agree that the government should not be offering those programs to ANYONE? Do you at least agree that people should be able to opt out and not pay taxes to cover those services, which they then would be unable to access?

    I personally believe the government should streamline he tax process and eliminate tax write offs. But until they do, am I a hypocrite for continuing to claim tax write-offs even though they have t fixed the process?

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    Re: Curt Schilling bounced from big show

    Quote Originally Posted by Opteron View Post
    Ok. I assume the $75 million loan was in large excess of moving expenses only, it amounts to government trying out venture capital business.
    State governments do it all the time. The only true issue is if the State is prudent. The article provided by Redress is good. I have read other articles that seem to indicate that, by industry standards, 38 Studios was still under-capitalized from the beginning, but launched hoping to kind of "borrow-go", that is, to be able to attract the funding when needed.

    But all this fabricated stuff about "bail-outs" and "hypocrisy" is just that ... partisan crap from the usual suspects.

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    Re: Curt Schilling bounced from big show

    Quote Originally Posted by Opteron View Post
    I don't have all the details on this story, but from what I see, it is hypocritical. He promotes self reliance and private enterprise, limited spending and then goes out and spends lots of money on a potential gamble and then asks the government for a bail out and says that this time government is good but all the other times government is bad. If he wanted to hold to his principles he should have gotten funding from only venture capital firms in the private market and not gone to government for a bail out. That does qualify as hypocrisy. He championed self reliance then went to government for loans, possibly additional loans, that is a little hypocritical. It looks like he over-leveraged himself, he did make a game, if it wasn't as successful, he shouldn't have continued development.
    I can understand what you are saying. I dont see it the same way, but I get what you are saying. Had he come out and said "businesses should never go to the government for loans" and then done that...agree...no doubt. I see a difference in personal life and business life. Businesses operate differently. If he was trying to keep the company and their 400 employees employed and was doing so legally, i simply dont see it the same as, say, he was living way over his means and had to go to the government for a bailout.

    I also dont believe the federal government should ever be in the business of speculating, and state governments ought to be very much beholden to their citizens if they get in this racket. If I was a citizen of Rhode island I would be pissed.

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    Re: Curt Schilling bounced from big show

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    State governments do it all the time. The only true issue is if the State is prudent. The article provided by Redress is good. I have read other articles that seem to indicate that, by industry standards, 38 Studios was still under-capitalized from the beginning, but launched hoping to kind of "borrow-go", that is, to be able to attract the funding when needed.

    But all this fabricated stuff about "bail-outs" and "hypocrisy" is just that ... partisan crap from the usual suspects.
    Unless the citizens of the state have voted to authorize these types of business loans, states shouldnt be doing it. I understand investment. There are secure investments and there are foolish investments. this seems like it was a foolish investment.

    MAYBE at the most they ought to offer some form of small scale small business loans...loans that were they to default they wouldnt leave the state on the hook for so much.

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    Re: Curt Schilling bounced from big show

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Trust, I know. But I do believe that Schilling got a lot of mileage out of his notoriety here.

    I read a first article on this days ago, that went much more in depth into this actual business field. Something like "multi-player video games". It is a very complicated field. Companies can literally invest $200 million in a single game, with development and marketing. Comapred to other comanies in this field, Schilling was under-capitalized from the beginning. However, their first game did reasonably well.

    Schilling went to the highest bidder. That is good business. He lost a lot of his own money as well.
    Of course, those outraged by Solyndra are leading the charge on this one and those that see Solyndra as the right idea poorly executed feel the same here. Am I right, its about the issues, not the political affiliation of persons behind the issue???

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    Re: Curt Schilling bounced from big show

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Of course, those outraged by Solyndra are leading the charge on this one and those that see Solyndra as the right idea poorly executed feel the same here. Am I right, its about the issues, not the political affiliation of persons behind the issue???
    Both Solyndra, and 38 Studios, as failures, will be scrutinized far more closely than those that succeed. If you are concerned about the excesses of Solyndra, you can look it up. There are significant differences in the circumstances of attracting a business to one's state, such as with 38, and then the Fed's throwing money at a business.

    You are also confusing the point. If you want to compare Schilling to someone, its not to Obama. Compare Schilling to the folks behind Solyndra.

    If you take issue with criticisms of the Obama Administration over Solyndra, then compare that to criticisms of RI.

    But the parallel is not Schilling to Obama. Hardly.
    Last edited by Eighty Deuce; 06-10-12 at 05:04 PM.

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    Re: Curt Schilling bounced from big show

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Unless the citizens of the state have voted to authorize these types of business loans, states shouldnt be doing it. I understand investment. There are secure investments and there are foolish investments. this seems like it was a foolish investment.

    MAYBE at the most they ought to offer some form of small scale small business loans...loans that were they to default they wouldnt leave the state on the hook for so much.
    What was done with 38 is what states do. Albeit more prudently, it is hoped. When things do not work out, accountability is much more local as well. If for no other reason, the state has to balance its books. IMMHO, the Feds throw money around with far less accountability.

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    Re: Curt Schilling bounced from big show

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    What was done with 38 is what states do. Albeit more prudently, it is hoped. When things do not work out, accountability is much more local as well. If for no other reason, the state has to balance its books. IMMHO, the Feds throw money around with far less accountability.
    What they did is pretty good evidence they shouldnt ought to do it. At all. Ever. Secure investments is one thing.

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    Re: Curt Schilling bounced from big show

    Quote Originally Posted by soccerboy22 View Post
    Schilling just did a beyond terrible job of running that business. Aside from all the money that he got from investors, Rhode Island, and Berekley Investements he also sank 50 million of his own money into it.
    Did Schilling actually run the business or was he the money?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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