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Thread: Frustrated liberals want more from Obama [W:299]

  1. #81
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    re: Frustrated liberals want more from Obama [W:299]

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    some so called conservatives don't understand the tenth amendment and whine because Fiscal left-winger-social fascist Santorum got his ass handed to him by Romney.
    Doesn't Obamas/Hillary Clintons embrace of Bush/Cheneys pre-emptive war doctrine, categorize them all as NeoCons now?

    Obamas foreign Policy is identical to Richard Pearls, Defense Policy Board, yes?

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    re: Frustrated liberals want more from Obama [W:299]

    Quote Originally Posted by ThongPounder View Post
    An absolute pullback would have been fine, worst case it would have left the place in as much of a mess as it is in now. The whole deck of cards is going to crumble whenever we decide to leave, so just get out and get it over with already. We can't continue to prop up Karzai and expect somehow "democracy" is going to flourish.

    You'll excuse me if I don't immediately buy into the global perspective of a guy calling himself "Thong Pounder" won't you?

    I wasn't being disingenous, I just wasn't going to allow you steer my points off to something else.
    Well, I thought we would have a conversation, but as it turns out you just want someone to agree with you....Good luck with that....

    Why does an attack on one candidate automatically have to resort in an attack on the other? I thought it was a big joke that Obama hired all those Clinton supporters after claiming he was going to be different. But that fact has nothing to do with the fact that Mitt is hiring all these Bush advisers.
    Ok, that's a fair point, but this race is going to be Romney v. Obama and the contrast between those two. So in apples to apples comparison it is not straight up in my opinion to just bash one, without looking at the other.

    Semantics here...the people had to pay less of a fee for these services before Mitt was Governor, and for 33 of these services they never had to pay a fee before. I could play silly little games like the Neocons play and say Mitt was redistributing wealth with this scheme. He was taking from the few who had the resources to pay these fees and redistributing to the whole. Either way, he derived a set of funds from taxpayers to offset another set of funds coming from the taxpayers.
    Wouldn't you rather people who actually use the services in question, pay the fees, instead of spreading them out to people who don't use the services?

    I don't think the government should subsidize any businesses. Business should be able to stand on the merits of their labor.
    Ok, I'll remember that.

    Actually, I was going to vote for Gary Johnson. He's the most qualified of the three candidates. And, even if he loses, sooner or later the Republicans are going to have to realize that if they keep giving us wishy washy subpar candidates that we aren't going to vote for them. I'd rather sacrifice an election or two where I might have gotten a miniscule improvement if it means strengthening the party as a whole.
    You might as well vote for Obama.

    You said that you were against all subsidies, yet Johnson, the guy you want to vote for co sponsored a Governors assn. resolution to further tax incentives to the coal industry for their R&D. You don't consider that a subsidy?

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  3. #83
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    Obama is the first black president, and that alone was enough to impress liberals four years ago. Perhaps now Obama needs to morph into a giant taco that craps ice cream, and maybe that would impress liberals???
    Last edited by The Man; 06-09-12 at 11:43 PM.

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    re: Frustrated liberals want more from Obama [W:299]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    Obama is the first black president, and that alone was enough to impress liberals four years ago. Perhaps now Obama needs to morph into a giant taco that craps ice cream, and that would impress liberals???
    Well, it matters. But, I think you're leaping to conclusions. Blacks had run before and not won. There had to be a perception that he was the better choice. I still think he was the better choice.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    re: Frustrated liberals want more from Obama [W:299]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    Obama is the first black president, and that alone was enough to impress liberals four years ago. Perhaps now Obama needs to morph into a giant taco that craps ice cream, and maybe that would impress liberals???
    The fact that he could so how morph into THAT should be enough alone to impress anyone and, if he won, that would only show how weak of a candidate Romney is.
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    re: Frustrated liberals want more from Obama [W:299]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane View Post
    Doesn't Obamas/Hillary Clintons embrace of Bush/Cheneys pre-emptive war doctrine, categorize them all as NeoCons now?

    Obamas foreign Policy is identical to Richard Pearls, Defense Policy Board, yes?
    Holy crap this post is so stupid i don't know where to begin.
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    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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    re: Frustrated liberals want more from Obama [W:299]

    Holy crap this post is so stupid i don't know where to begin.
    I think it would help to suggest that the person doesn't even know what a neoconservative actually is and how people are in any way compared to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane View Post
    Doesn't Obamas/Hillary Clintons embrace of Bush/Cheneys pre-emptive war doctrine, categorize them all as NeoCons now?

    Obamas foreign Policy is identical to Richard Pearls, Defense Policy Board, yes?
    Not really, guy. Oversimplification is fashionable around these parts, but don't go pushing it to the limit like Alex Jones (though as we have gathered before, that might seem like a reasonable mentor to some of the posting habits displayed).

    First off, Richard Perle's (Perle, not Pearl) foreign policy is not identical. This was a guy who fought tooth and nail against the Soviet negotiation team and the US State Dept.'s attempt to give up some ground after the Soviets gave on one concession. Do you think that this guy would have taken that most recent nuke deal? Gimme a break.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 06-10-12 at 01:26 AM.
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    re: Frustrated liberals want more from Obama [W:299]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    You'll excuse me if I don't immediately buy into the global perspective of a guy calling himself "Thong Pounder" won't you?
    You know what my first thought was when I saw that name? I was thinking “sock puppet”.

    Thong Pounder


    Not so, apparently. There seems to be, in this person's postings, at least a hint of normal intelligence, which is not seen in those of the person whose sock I initially suspected him of being.
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    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

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    re: Frustrated liberals want more from Obama [W:299]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Actually, Cheney and Rumsfeld are pretty smart. They knew exactly what they were doing. They're goals just may not have been what yours might have been.
    How can you say that? They had no idea what they were doing. In 1991 they were among the many that were affraid of the tribal turmoil in Iraq were they to have their dictator removed. In 2003 they insisted on the bare minimum of troop strength launching across the border following a "Shock and Awe" display. All of sudden the fear of the tribe ceased? Rumsfeld in on record for believeing that technology alone would win future wars while some of our troops merely collected up the surrendering masses. The had no clue what they were doing and absolutely expected the Gulf War to serve as the example. Their goals did not meet their applications. This is what happens when you have a Vice President that was spoiled beyond his expiration date and a SECDEF that never even served in the military.


    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post

    It's also because the military believes it (torture) is not only wrong, but ineffective. I do not fault the military, being a hammer, for seeing solutions in the context of using a hammer. Often what the military thinks is their mission is not what the civilian leadership thinks is their mission. It is not unusual for the two to see things differently. What I fault Bush most for is misusing the military for a purpose that was neither wise nor beneficial to the US. He spent US lives for no valid reason.
    I do fault civilian leadership. Is nation building a military basic function? How about humanitarian missions? The military has been dropped into one mission after another that it is not trained for since the end of the Cold War. The military has had to learn in the fire just to satisfy the unnacceptable inexperience of politicians who default to the military whenever the answers don't come easy. The military has had to learn how to approach a rediculous diversity of missions since Somalia when the recognization that it will not be allowed to finish the job. This is why the military did not trust Bush when he sent it to Afghanistan or Iraq. Rumsfeld compounded the problems. Our politicians have behaved very poorly because they assume to know better about war than the practitioners. I do believe in Iraq (done correctly). I do believe in Afghanistan (done correctly). I do believe in Libya. I do believe in what will soon be Syria. Because I believe this Arab Spring is the big picture that will usher in true stability, which will offer greater security to U.S. interests. This is about region. Always has been. It's historical.

    And the problem with "wasting US lives" is that everybody uses this to protest what they don't believe in. I believe it's a waste of US lives to pretend that small problems will always sort themselves out before they evolve into bigger events.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post

    Never saw a slogan that matched the performance. I think that is the nature of political slogans. But, we saw the change I expected, not the change I hoped for. We discussed this before the election, and the radical right missed what was being said as much as the radical left. We wanted torture called what it was. We wanted the focus back in Afghanistan. We wanted Iraq done. We wanted Gitmo closed (because of the torture and violations of rule of law). Most of that was done.
    Bush had already set the time table for leaving Iraq. Obama merely continued it.

    Bush tried to close GITMO. He failed. Obama promised to close GITMO. He has failed.

    With Iraq on the outs, focus was naturally going to go back to Afghanistan.

    So what did Obama do? He promised much and failed at most. He failed because he assumed to be able to apply his liberal perspectives to a very defined brutal world. Once realizing this, he shifetd fast and has dissapointed Liberals everywhere. This is why he rushed to apologize to Europe and wound up spurning Europe even more than Bush. This is why his promises that focused on countering everything he and others criticized about Bush, shifted to a focus on Universal Health Care and gays. And the truth about gays in the military was that the Federal court was already on its way to countering DADT with the Pentagon more than willing to end that burdensome policy.

    He is not the great Liberal dream. Neither was Clinton, who defied the UN over Bosnia and Kosovo. Neither was Kennedy who put us in Vietnam. Carter was closer to the Liberal dream than any of them. Ironic enough, he is placed beneath the other three.

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    re: Frustrated liberals want more from Obama [W:299]

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Obama was stymied by Congress, who blocked him at every turn on GITMO (not to mention a pansy-ass NYC who didn't want a trial there). The Left understands that, meaning there is no need to get on Obama's case about it.
    The alternative here is to paint Obama as lame and excuse him for making stupid promises. Bush seemed to get away with doing exactly what he felt he needed to do. Obama, with Pelosi leading the charge, couldn't? And he's the great "Hope?"

    You have noticed that the military very much follows the orders of a single man right? Closing GITMO would have happened within wekks given the Presidential order.

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