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Thread: Frustrated liberals want more from Obama [W:299]

  1. #161
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    re: Frustrated liberals want more from Obama [W:299]

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    I realize there are folks that hang on every word that comes from "their" partisian hacks, but I don't watch TV, except for local news. I do read papers with a grain of salt, but they do seem a tad better than the normal blather from those everyone calls the mainstream media.

    Not gonna argue the "Bush made mistakes" issue with you. This thread is about Obama. Bush is no longer in office and even tho you'd like to blame him for what is happening currently, you can't. I'll give you he did makes mistakes.

    Sure govt employess pay taxes. But you can't honestly being trying to convince me that the economy can survive if we take in money from govt employees and them pay it back to them and pay the down the debt this country has riding on its shoulders, can you?

    Private companies and their ability to grow and make jobs and PAY TAXES is the reason we can attempt to pay down the debt and those that work for the govt.

    President Obama evidently doesn't have a handle on this either.
    The bush made mistake is about credibility of your complaint. You present someone you see as experienced, and yet, his record is not stellar, but in fact full of serious errors. SO, this brings your judgment into question.

    As for government employees, I'm not trying to convince you of much. Only that they do pay taxes, and that if they lose their jobs, it will increase unemployment. And nothing you have said or presented supports that Obama doesn't have a handle on either. I've asked you to show something specific.

    One last thing, if you don't watch or read much, doesn't this hinder your knowledge? Is it really good to speak from a position of ignorance (as in lack of knowledge)?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    re: Frustrated liberals want more from Obama [W:299]

    Obama plays a deep game. That can be frustrating to impatient supporters.

    -o-

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    re: Frustrated liberals want more from Obama [W:299]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pirvaya View Post
    Obama plays a deep game. That can be frustrating to impatient supporters.

    -o-
    OK. What does that mean?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    re: Frustrated liberals want more from Obama [W:299]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    OK. What does that mean?
    I think he's implying that Obama gets to his goals in round-about ways with jujitsu politics instead of going right at the policy implementation that he wants. A lot of people saying this. Not a fan of that style either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    re: Frustrated liberals want more from Obama [W:299]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    OK. What does that mean?
    My guess is that it's first rate sarcasm.

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    re: Frustrated liberals want more from Obama [W:299]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    My guess is that it's first rate sarcasm.
    Could be. I just wasn't sure. I'm still not.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    re: Frustrated liberals want more from Obama [W:299]

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    I think he's implying that Obama gets to his goals in round-about ways with jujitsu politics instead of going right at the policy implementation that he wants. A lot of people saying this. Not a fan of that style either.
    Another possibility. I hope he answers.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    re: Frustrated liberals want more from Obama [W:299]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The bush made mistake is about credibility of your complaint. You present someone you see as experienced, and yet, his record is not stellar, but in fact full of serious errors. SO, this brings your judgment into question.

    As for government employees, I'm not trying to convince you of much. Only that they do pay taxes, and that if they lose their jobs, it will increase unemployment. And nothing you have said or presented supports that Obama doesn't have a handle on either. I've asked you to show something specific.

    One last thing, if you don't watch or read much, doesn't this hinder your knowledge? Is it really good to speak from a position of ignorance (as in lack of knowledge)?

    The thread is about liberals being frustrated with Obama. You'd have to have lived in a cave somewhere to not know that Libbys hate Bush. So IMO, that fact is a given and doesn't need to be rehased on a thread about "frustrated Obama liberals".

    Of course you will say "this brings you judgement into question". That way you don't have to answer the thread question. This tactic isn't new and has been done over and over by others and IMO done better.

    As to the "if you don't watch or read much", I said I read newspapers, that's usually where most news stories on TV come from, right?

    IMO your comment "Is it really good to speak from a position of ignorance" would be better asked of yourself. And it's not the best dodge I've seen on DP. But it is your attempt to get off the hook.

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    re: Frustrated liberals want more from Obama [W:299]

    @Boo Radley:

    Sorry for not getting back to you earlier. It's been busy here.

    At first blush we might dismiss Obama's as the usual fate of a moderate, appearing like "a big-government liberal" to Righties and as having "succumbed to the corporate influence" to Lefties. This is similar to the decline in the fortunes of CNN and of the Liberal parties in Canada, Australia and Britain: the centre gets squeezed out by the extremes. (It also explains why there will never be a viable third party in the U.S. until preferential voting or run-off elections are instituted...but I digress.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    OK. What does that mean?
    Actually, I meant what I said. I trust we agree that anyone who thinks Obama is prone to impulsive errors needs only ask poli-sci students about his 2008 campaigns. Pick an issue. Seriously. Any issue. Obama's decision to support same sex marriage? Dems who wondered why it took so long can look at the list of things he'd done previously and ask how they missed so many signs:

    eQualityGiving - Accomplishments by the Administration and Congress on LGBT Equality

    Note the predictable timing, too: rather than dodge a festering controversy Obama gets it out of the way early by "hanging a lantern on it", as he did in 2008 with Ayers, Wright and his father.

    Universal health care? Watch how this plays out, starting with the ACA opening gambit.

    Now consider any or all of the other initiatives that the Left is demanding from Obama. If he had attempted a quarter of these--even if they weren't doomed due to the obstructionist Congress--in his first term do you think there would be a second? Some think 2012 will be close enough as it is! No one understands the politics of the possible better than Obama.

    For his supporters, the second term is the payoff. The voters' decision to TP Congress a week after Hallowe'en, 2010, will have made its point. The RepTealian party will have failed in its singular, stated goal of unseating Obama and will fade into footnote. Its remnants will then have to turn their attention to {gasp!} serving their constituents and country. Statements by Jeb Bush and others are already presaging a Thermidorian reaction among Republicans. As for Obama's supporters, are they patient enough to let the 22nd Amendment play out? Do they understand that it takes 16 continuous years to change a nation's course fundamentally? For examples, see Reagan/Bush and the statesman with whom Obama has so much in common it's spooky:

    Commercial Poetry: The Politics of Coincidence

    Because it is like reviewing a movie in progress, Obama's far-seeing approach doesn't have long coattails. For example, compare the success of Obama's endorsements to those of Bill Clinton. If Democrats want four contiguous terms they may need to rely on a 69-year-old Hillary in 2016; right now, they lack the Republicans' bench strength (e.g. Jeb, Christie, Martinez, et cetera).

    Thanks for your interest, Boo.

    HTH,

    Pirvaya

    ***

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    re: Frustrated liberals want more from Obama [W:299]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Man, I couldn't have said it better. Your clarity, and straight forward writing style are a breath of fresh air in here MSgt. I may not always agree with the way some things are laid out in some of your valuable postings, but your direction of thought, and ability to cut through the bull are respected by myself.

    Thanks for the response.


    j-mac
    Thanks. I spent half my career focusing on small details and local happenings during my deployments. I missed the point throughout the 90s. From 9/11 on I pulled back and started looking at wider meanings. We could choose to see Somalia as Somalia or Bosnia as Bosnia....or we could look for the related themes of these places and get to the heart of the problem. I believe people who look at Iraq as Iraq, Afghanstan as Afghanistan, Libya as Libya, Syria as Syria, etc. are missing the point. They prefer to see the world as a series of well defined organized borders, despite the unified civilizations that transcend those borders.

    Protestors of virtually everything going in the Middle East from one event to the next (Arab Spring, Iraq invasion, Aghanistan efforts, Libya bombing, etc.) are on record for preaching about how military can't solve the problem. But the problem, as I see it, is that by preaching this, protestors are really only using this sermon to protest the local single event. They deny themselves the ability to pull back. They aren't looking at the bigger picture and how these unnatural bordered nations are mere pieces of the puzzle. And how quickly did the bigger European picture fall apart when the pieces didn't fit? In other words, protestors mire themselves in the bull just to satisfy their own allegiances to politicial parties and impractical ideologies.

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