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Thread: Eric Holder grilled over Fast and Furious in Congress

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    Re: Eric Holder grilled over Fast and Furious in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post
    Who ever authorized the re-start of gun runner in DOJ, ATF and the White House must be held accountable for the deaths of 2 American Law Enforcement agents Jamie Zapata and Brian Terry.
    why? were they acting in any way outside their official capacity when they 'oversaw' and/or implemented the gun-walking strategy
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Eric Holder grilled over Fast and Furious in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post
    Does Holder have ADD or a hearing problem?
    Do you have a reading problem? Like I said, it's clear from the video that Holder was speaking to a woman behind him when Chaffitz is reading the email aloud. In other words, he wasn't listening to Chaffitz at that moment.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Eric Holder grilled over Fast and Furious in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    why? were they acting in any way outside their official capacity when they 'oversaw' and/or implemented the gun-walking strategy
    Criminally negligent manslaughter

    Criminally negligent manslaughter is variously referred to as criminally negligent homicide in the United States, gross negligence manslaughter in England and Wales. In Scotland and some Commonwealth of Nations jurisdictions the offence of culpable homicide might apply.

    It occurs where death results from serious negligence, or, in some jurisdictions, serious recklessness. A high degree of negligence is required to warrant criminal liability. A related concept is that of willful blindness, which is where a defendant intentionally puts himself in a position where he will be unaware of facts which would render him liable.

    Criminally negligent manslaughter occurs where there is an omission to act when there is a duty to do so, or a failure to perform a duty owed, which leads to a death. The existence of the duty is essential because the law does not impose criminal liability for a failure to act unless a specific duty is owed to the victim.

    Criminal negligence becomes "gross" when the failure to foresee involves a "wanton disregard for human life"

    Manslaughter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    As Law Enforcement officials, they had a "duty to act" as soon as they started losing track of the Assault Rifles in question. Common sense and duty to law enforcement dictates once they lost track of guns, shut the program down. They didn't do that. They failed to foresee that allowing un-tracked assault rifles in the hands of murderous drug cartels would constitute a "wanton disregard for human life". After all they were not allowing tire pressure gauges to cross the border, they were dealing with assault rifles.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

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    Re: Eric Holder grilled over Fast and Furious in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Do you have a reading problem? Like I said, it's clear from the video that Holder was speaking to a woman behind him when Chaffitz is reading the email aloud. In other words, he wasn't listening to Chaffitz at that moment.
    I'm sure you'd like to think that, but let's see where he said so. Post a link.

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Do you have a reading problem?
    Please drop childish remarks, it makes me think I'm debating with a 6 year old.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

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    Re: Eric Holder grilled over Fast and Furious in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Do you have a reading problem? Like I said, it's clear from the video that Holder was speaking to a woman behind him when Chaffitz is reading the email aloud. In other words, he wasn't listening to Chaffitz at that moment.
    Holder and Chaffitz had a conversation about "fast and furious" on the video. Did you not see it? Everyone else here apparently did.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Generalizations are stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Steel View Post
    The Second Amendment has nothing to do with guns.

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    Re: Eric Holder grilled over Fast and Furious in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post
    As Law Enforcement officials, they had a "duty to act" as soon as they started losing track of the Assault Rifles in question. Common sense and duty to law enforcement dictates once they lost track of guns, shut the program down. They didn't do that. They failed to foresee that allowing un-tracked assault rifles in the hands of murderous drug cartels would constitute a "wanton disregard for human life". After all they were not allowing tire pressure gauges to cross the border, they were dealing with assault rifles.
    why are you not similarly alarmed that such weapons are publicly - and openly - exchanged within our own society
    why is that OK, while similar weapon transactions in mexico are so egregious
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Eric Holder grilled over Fast and Furious in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    why are you not similarly alarmed that such weapons are publicly - and openly - exchanged within our own society
    why is that OK, while similar weapon transactions in mexico are so egregious
    Start a new thread on that. Your off topic and trying to deflect.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

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    Re: Eric Holder grilled over Fast and Furious in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post
    Start a new thread on that. Your off topic and trying to deflect.
    you can run but you can't hide from the question
    why is it OK for such guns to be distributed openly in the USA but not for mexico

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post
    As Law Enforcement officials, they had a "duty to act" as soon as they started losing track of the Assault Rifles in question. Common sense and duty to law enforcement dictates once they lost track of guns, shut the program down. They didn't do that. They failed to foresee that allowing un-tracked assault rifles in the hands of murderous drug cartels would constitute a "wanton disregard for human life". After all they were not allowing tire pressure gauges to cross the border, they were dealing with assault rifles.
    [bold emphasis added by bubba to point out why my post was in direct reply to your statement]
    for some reason, you believe that assault weapons sales in the USA are found acceptable while those in mexico are indicative of an administration that can't shoot straight
    your posts indicate an inability to see the truth because of massive partisanship
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Eric Holder grilled over Fast and Furious in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post
    I'm sure you'd like to think that, but let's see where he said so. Post a link.



    Please drop childish remarks, it makes me think I'm debating with a 6 year old.
    The remark was a reference to your childish suggestion that Holder has ADD or a hearing problem. When you act like a 6 year old people will tend to treat you like one.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Eric Holder grilled over Fast and Furious in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by Μολὼν λαβέ View Post
    Holder and Chaffitz had a conversation about "fast and furious" on the video. Did you not see it? Everyone else here apparently did.
    Apparently "everyone else" is hell-bent on pretending they didn't comprehend what I wrote ... twice.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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