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Eric Holder grilled over Fast and Furious in Congress

justabubba said:
you did expose some significant silliness with that post; on that we agree
you also exposed that you have nowhere else to hide on this issue
your side's hypocrisy has been exposed
if you support assault weapons sales in the USA then why would you have basis to object to them in mexico
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God, you think up some monumentally stupid ****. ITS WHO WAS BUYING THEM.
 
AdamT said:
I have no doubt that the victims here would have been killed with or without operation fast and furious. Do you really think the cartels couldn't have gotten guns any other way? Recall that the operation was undertaken because the cartels had virtually unlimited access to to the US gun market. So let's stop pretending that the operation provided them something that they wouldn't have obtained very easily from another source.
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Then ATF should have been focusing on the US gun black market and not sting operations that made the black market seem worse so Obama could impose more gun control laws.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Then ATF should have been focusing on the US gun black market and not sting operations that made the black market seem worse so Obama could impose more gun control laws.
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They are both legitimate problems. They should have been more competent in addressing them.
 
AdamT said:
I have no doubt that the victims here would have been killed with or without operation fast and furious. Do you really think the cartels couldn't have gotten guns any other way? Recall that the operation was undertaken because the cartels had virtually unlimited access to to the US gun market. So let's stop pretending that the operation provided them something that they wouldn't have obtained very easily from another source.
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So stating "those people would have gotten killed anyway" is your defense of an illegal program that ensured the death of countless people including US Border Patrol agent Brian Terry?

What a child like and despicable statement.

The lengths liberals will go to defend their political agenda.

I noticed it garnered support form another liberal on this forum. No surprise there; birds of a feather...
 
Μολὼν λαβέ;1060585518 said:
So stating "those people would have gotten killed anyway" is your defense of an illegal program that ensured the death of countless people including US Border Patrol agent Brian Terry?
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I'm not defending the program, which I've described as incompetent many times. But getting emotional about the botched program doesn't alter the fact that those agents would very likely have been gunned down either way. The cartels have no problem getting their hands on guns. That's why the several operations were contemplated to begin with.
 
Μολὼν λαβέ;1060585518 said:
So stating "those people would have gotten killed anyway" is your defense of an illegal program that ensured the death of countless people including US Border Patrol agent Brian Terry?

What a child like and despicable statement.

The lengths liberals will go to defend their political agenda.

I noticed it garnered support form another liberal on this forum. No surprise there; birds of a feather...
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To be fair, it's only the hyperpartisan left defending this tripe. However I have no doubt the same people making themselves look bad to defend Holder would be calling for international war crimes charges against a Republican administration, and calling for negligent homicide charges in the death of agent Terry. War crimes charges aren't warranted I wouldn't think, but NH definitely is, and the Mexican government has a legitimate claim to the asses of those involved in the F&F operation.
 
AdamT said:
I'm not defending the program, which I've described as incompetent many times. But getting emotional about the botched program doesn't alter the fact that those agents would very likely have been gunned down either way. The cartels have no problem getting their hands on guns. That's why the several operations were contemplated to begin with.
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Do you lock your door when you go out ???

Why bother, they will only break it down or go through a window .......

What a sad commentary on the left that you and your ilk are willing to go to such contemptible lengths to defend this man.
 
Μολὼν λαβέ;1060585236 said:
What a trolling hack. This is probably the most inane and asinine post I've seen at DP. Get a clue; then come back and have an informed discussion.

Ever heard of the Bill of Rights? See Amendment #2.

The problem wasn't the weapons transaction in Mexico, it was the weapons that were sold illegally in the US that were knowingly, by the US government, being taken illegally into Mexico.
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oh no
weapons that you have no problem with being exchanged and transported in the USA suddenly become problems when they are found to exist in mexico? there is no logic to this
your side has plenty of whine, they only need now to find the issue for it
hint: this one won't flush




****hold off on the trolling hack comments; they can get you dinged upstairs****
 
justabubba said:
oh no
weapons that you have no problem with being exchanged and transported in the USA suddenly become problems when they are found to exist in mexico? there is no logic to this
your side has plenty of whine, they only need now to find the issue for it
hint: this one won't flush




****hold off on the trolling hack comments; they can get you dinged upstairs****
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No, they are a problem when the Justice Department watches illegally obtained guns cross the Mexican border illegally, then used to illegally kill an innocent Border Patrol Agent.

And if that wasn't enough, watch the Attorney General illegally lie to Congress.
 
OpportunityCost said:
God, you think up some monumentally stupid ****. ITS WHO WAS BUYING THEM.
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why is it so important that we know who was buying them in mexico?
would y'all please figure out a reason you are so uptight about this and share it with the rest of us?
holder lying
assault weapons in mexico as if the same people would scream and shout if they were not allowed in the USA
Obama's fault even tho the gun-walking was a strategy conceived and implemented during the dicknbush era
and now you insist that it is who is buying the guns in mexico ... as if you could give a rip who is buying those same type weapons in the USA
keep trying. you guys will eventually figure out what it is that upsets you
 
Gill said:
No, they are a problem when the Justice Department watches illegally obtained guns cross the Mexican border illegally, then used to illegally kill an innocent Border Patrol Agent.

And if that wasn't enough, watch the Attorney General illegally lie to Congress.
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and if that border patrol agent had been killed with another weapon instead, share with us how that would have changed things?

you folks are so desperate to find something to whine about Obama that you are grasping at straws

but please don't stop. it is crap like this that convinces me Obama will walk to the finish line in november
 
justabubba said:
and if that border patrol agent had been killed with another weapon instead, share with us how that would have changed things?

you folks are so desperate to find something to whine about Obama that you are grasping at straws

but please don't stop. it is crap like this that convinces me Obama will walk to the finish line in november
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He wasn't killed by another weapon. He was killed by a firearm the Holder/Obama government sanctioned to be illegally purchased, and illegally taken past an international border.

Thanks for making that point.
 
Μολὼν λαβέ;1060585723 said:
He wasn't killed by another weapon. He was killed by a firearm the Holder/Obama government sanctioned to be illegally purchased, and illegally taken past an international border.

Thanks for making that point.
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and had he been killed by another weapon, how would that have changed anything
sorry guys, you are running on empty with this one
 
Gill said:
Do you lock your door when you go out ???

Why bother, they will only break it down or go through a window .......

What a sad commentary on the left that you and your ilk are willing to go to such contemptible lengths to defend this man.
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WTF are you babbling about? :lol:

Why do you have such a hard on for Holder, anyway? Do you support the Mexican drug cartels and their right to bear black market American guns? Do you think it's doing the Mexicans a favor to ignore the problem? And by problem, I mean the tens of thousands of guns that walk across the border -- not the handful that were lost in an attempt to stem the flow.
 
Μολὼν λαβέ;1060585723 said:
He wasn't killed by another weapon. He was killed by a firearm the Holder/Obama government sanctioned to be illegally purchased, and illegally taken past an international border.

Thanks for making that point.
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No ****! And of course if those F&F guns hadn't crossed the border you're saying that the Mexican drug cartels would have been ... what? Relegated to using slingshots and lawn darts? :lol:
 
AdamT said:
WTF are you babbling about? :lol:

Why do you have such a hard on for Holder, anyway? Do you support the Mexican drug cartels and their right to bear black market American guns? Do you think it's doing the Mexicans a favor to ignore the problem? And by problem, I mean the tens of thousands of guns that walk across the border -- not the handful that were lost in an attempt to stem the flow.
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It's so much fun to stick your hypocrisy back into your face, I can't help it.

I don't have a hard on for Holder, I have one for incompetent amateurs like the ones running our country now. You must be the one supporting the Mexican cartels' right to black market guns since the guy you are defending supplied them to them.

If tens of thousands of guns are walking across the border, then maybe you'll join us in demanding Holder's resignation, since you agree that he's incompetent.
 
justabubba said:
and if that border patrol agent had been killed with another weapon instead, share with us how that would have changed things?

you folks are so desperate to find something to whine about Obama that you are grasping at straws

but please don't stop. it is crap like this that convinces me Obama will walk to the finish line in november
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You guys are getting more and more desperate, but go right ahead. It's a real hoot watching you squirm and try to defend the indefensible.

I think its great. It is a sign that you know Obummer is in real trouble and will likely go the way of Carter onto the dung heap of mediocrity and disgrace.
 
justabubba said:
and had he been killed by another weapon, how would that have changed anything
sorry guys, you are running on empty with this one
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You do realize that "another weapon" wouldn't be charged to the organizers of F&F correct? If an illegally obtained weapon came from another country it wouldn't even have a SN thus wouldn't be traceable, as well, the SN on the weapon that killed agent Terry was registered back to the federal action which makes them culpable. There really isn't any wiggle room here.
 
justabubba said:
and had he been killed by another weapon, how would that have changed anything
sorry guys, you are running on empty with this one
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Tell that to Agent Terry's family. He wasn't killed by another weapon. He was killed with a Holder sanctioned weapon, period.

Doctrine of the far left: Deny all culpability and responsibility; nothing new here.
 
AdamT said:
No ****! And of course if those F&F guns hadn't crossed the border you're saying that the Mexican drug cartels would have been ... what? Relegated to using slingshots and lawn darts? :lol:
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So you tell us, did the firearm that killed Agent Terry come from Operation Fast and Furious? Yes or no?
 
Μολὼν λαβέ;1060585817 said:
Tell that to Agent Terry's family. He wasn't killed by another weapon. He was killed with a Holder sanctioned weapon, period.

Doctrine of the far left: Deny all culpability and responsibility; nothing new here.
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I don't get the whole game of going after those wanting to hold Holder accountable. Those saying we are trying to put a thumb in the eye of the administration aren't getting something.......we aren't making anything up, the most damning evidence is out in the open. To really hammer the point home, there is a reason we aren't going after Holder for things we have no evidence of such as possession and distribution of illegal porn because we don't think he did that and we have no reason to believe such. We aren't going after Holder for attempt to overthrow the government because of the prior standard. We DO know that that the administration let guns illegally purchased and transferred walk across the U.S. border into criminal hands despite evidence from the prior administration that there was no way to keep track of them, which led to criminal use taking the lives of not only innocent Mexican citizens but one U.S. border patrol agent as well.
 
LaMidRighter said:
I don't get the whole game of going after those wanting to hold Holder accountable. Those saying we are trying to put a thumb in the eye of the administration aren't getting something.......we aren't making anything up, the most damning evidence is out in the open. To really hammer the point home, there is a reason we aren't going after Holder for things we have no evidence of such as possession and distribution of illegal porn because we don't think he did that and we have no reason to believe such. We aren't going after Holder for attempt to overthrow the government because of the prior standard. We DO know that that the administration let guns illegally purchased and transferred walk across the U.S. border into criminal hands despite evidence from the prior administration that there was no way to keep track of them, which led to criminal use taking the lives of not only innocent Mexican citizens but one U.S. border patrol agent as well.
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The biggest thing at this point is the cover up, as it always is...Holder is just the stooge, the patsy, the shield for someone higher up that cooked this insanely stupid plan up.

j-mac
 
j-mac said:
The biggest thing at this point is the cover up, as it always is...Holder is just the stooge, the patsy, the shield for someone higher up that cooked this insanely stupid plan up.

j-mac
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I would even be willing to give benefit of the doubt if the operation had never been tried before, and if the stated purpose was believable. The administration rhetoric was that of embarrasing gun owners prior to the facts coming out and then the rhetoric all of a sudden changed, this was just a complete disaster and because it wasn't done with full accountability it is IMO criminal.
 
LaMidRighter said:
You do realize that "another weapon" wouldn't be charged to the organizers of F&F correct? If an illegally obtained weapon came from another country it wouldn't even have a SN thus wouldn't be traceable, as well, the SN on the weapon that killed agent Terry was registered back to the federal action which makes them culpable. There really isn't any wiggle room here.
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and i still wait for you to tell us what would have changed had that agent been shot with another weapon instead

i do realize you have nothing, which is why all on the fringe are avoiding that question like the plague
 
justabubba said:
and i still wait for you to tell us what would have changed had that agent been shot with another weapon instead

i do realize you have nothing, which is why all on the fringe are avoiding that question like the plague
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LOL! I did, it's up to you to be honest and admit that the weapon used was traced back to the operation in question. If the weapon wasn't traced back to the operation in question Holder wouldn't be getting reamed in front of Congress right now.
 
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