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Thread: Eric Holder grilled over Fast and Furious in Congress

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    Re: Eric Holder grilled over Fast and Furious in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    Why do people use this type of debate style? One has nothing to do with the other. It is a misdirection of the topic. Its the old, well "X" did this, so what is the big deal. If you want to debate Bush and the war, start another thread.

    IMO, Holder and the DOJ has been playing politics with F&F, and not in a good way. I look at the issue on its own merits. This one smells.
    since you asked, it's called pointing out the hypocrisy
    the unnecessary deaths of 4000 are ignored while the death or another is highlighted, even tho in that instance the government's actions may in no way have contributed to the death - unlike the other 4000
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Eric Holder grilled over Fast and Furious in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    The issue I'm raising is the feigned outrage of the far right. Thus the comparison.
    But what you portray is the absurdity of the far left. You complain about partisan politics in this thread yet practice it yourself. Notice the lack of lefties in this thread? Its mostly you and jusabubba. Its because the rational dems/liberals/members of the far left know Holder has lied to and been stone walling congress, and congress by the way has had just about enough. There is no justification for Holder's behavior. Most everyone but you two seem to know that, like it or not.

    Actually, if you two hadn't provided so many conservatives so much entertainment the past two days, this thread would have long since died. But hey, if you two want to continue with your partisan support for what most everyone else here at DP, and in the US conclude to be a huge mistake by the present administration, especially Holder, then debate on!
    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Generalizations are stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Steel View Post
    The Second Amendment has nothing to do with guns.

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    Re: Eric Holder grilled over Fast and Furious in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    No, I just want you to answer whether you gave the same kind of heat to a president who was responsible for 4000+ American deaths and countless injuries due to incompetence that you're giving to the current president over two deaths that most likely would have occurred anyway.

    chirp chirp
    I blame these people for the Iraq war:



    As for the actual topic of this thread, it is obvious to anyone with reasoning ability that the purpose of Fast and Furious was NOT to track weapons into Mexico, because if that was the intent of the operation, they failed miserably. I'm not completely discounting the idea, this administration has proven inept at just about everything they've tried.

    However: The intent of F&F was to send weapons into Mexico, wait until they were used by the drug cartels to kill people, and then say "SEE?!? Guns are BAD, and we need to outlaw them immediately!!!"

    Holder is trying (and failing) to hide this obvious conclusion. The truth will come out eventually, despite ridiculous assertions like the one that memos referring to Fast & Furious weren't actually about Fast & Furious. Obama and Holder cooked up this scheme, and everyone with a properly functioning brain knows they did...and why. Hopefully Holder will be prosecuted and jailed for this (maybe they can put him in Guantanamo with the rest of his anti-American buddies).

    Final point, it's good to know that only the shooters are responsible for the shootings, and not the gun suppliers. The Columbine High School killers got their guns from the Tanner Gun Show in Denver, and the anti-2nd amendment nuts protest the gun show for that reason to this very day. I'll make sure to discuss F&F with said nuts at their next protest.

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    Re: Eric Holder grilled over Fast and Furious in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by Μολὼν λαβέ View Post
    But what you portray is the absurdity of the far left. You complain about partisan politics in this thread yet practice it yourself. Notice the lack of lefties in this thread? Its mostly you and jusabubba. Its because the rational dems/liberals/members of the far left know Holder has lied to and been stone walling congress, and congress by the way has had just about enough. There is no justification for Holder's behavior. Most everyone but you two seem to know that, like it or not.

    Actually, if you two hadn't provided so many conservatives so much entertainment the past two days, this thread would have long since died. But hey, if you two want to continue with your partisan support for what most everyone else here at DP, and in the US conclude to be a huge mistake by the present administration, especially Holder, then debate on!
    The fact is that there is no evidence Holder has done anything wrong. The operation was a screwup, like a similar operation under Bush (that you righties always gloss over), but there's no indication that Holder authorized it. The truth is that Issa is on a partisan witch hunt that isn't even supported by Republican leadership. He's on a fishing expedition, requesting tens of thousands of pages of sensitive law enforcement records which could jeopardize many ongoing investigations. That's why the Reagan and Bush DOJs also refused to turn over records.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

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    Re: Eric Holder grilled over Fast and Furious in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    The fact is that there is no evidence Holder has done anything wrong. The operation was a screwup, like a similar operation under Bush (that you righties always gloss over), but there's no indication that Holder authorized it. The truth is that Issa is on a partisan witch hunt that isn't even supported by Republican leadership. He's on a fishing expedition, requesting tens of thousands of pages of sensitive law enforcement records which could jeopardize many ongoing investigations. That's why the Reagan and Bush DOJs also refused to turn over records.
    A month or so away and it is amazing how well you manage to stay on message.........................
    obama.jpg

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    Re: Eric Holder grilled over Fast and Furious in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Almost every traceable weapon in the world comes from the U.S.A. not because we have the most but because we are one of the only countries that requires a serial number to be stamped on the weapon. The only reason for F&F was to have traceable weapons in the wrong hands for tracking, the reasons for such are suspect which is why this is one reason it's a problem. The second and more pressing reason is that because the first time this program was tried it was deemed to be too hard to control effectively, and the current administration tried it yet again, this time with human lives lost on both sides of the border, that is unforgiveable.

    Bad guys will get their hands on weapons, no question, in any situation and in any country they always do. The thing is though that a government should never be complicit in the process.

    No argument here.

    Possibly better armed TBH. This does not excuse a government action allowing such to happen and with loss of life, this is the main contention. Any civilian who engaged in the F&F tactics would be an old man when they finally saw the free side of a prison gate.

    I don't think most people are. But when someone says it's a "non-issue" I personally assert that that particular statement is belittlement of the situation(not accusing you of this BTW).

    I think the partisans are in fact drawing lines in the sand. I am not, this whole situation is a gross abuse of power and innocent people have lost their lives because of a very stupid federal tactic, that is not a partisan problem, that is a crying shame.


    Thanks. Now I don't have to respond to "bubba". It an exercise in futility any.

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    Re: Eric Holder grilled over Fast and Furious in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    No, I just want you to answer whether you gave the same kind of heat to a president who was responsible for 4000+ American deaths and countless injuries due to incompetence that you're giving to the current president over two deaths that most likely would have occurred anyway.

    chirp chirp
    As much as I hold FDR responsible for the 291,000 deaths in WWII, as much as I hold Truman responsible for 33,000 deaths in Korea, as much as I hold LBJ responsible for 50,000 deaths in Vietnam. Apparently none of them were impeached either for their legal actions.

    Two deaths that would have occurred any way? The deaths are simply the consequences of an illegal program, which was lied about even existing, then Holder denied knowing about it, then admitted it occurred, and is now covering up by no cooperating with a Congressional investigation. See... Holder lied and people died too didn't they. :
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Eric Holder grilled over Fast and Furious in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    The fact is that there is no evidence Holder has done anything wrong.
    Fact is you're wrong....

    Cornyn kinda sums it up



    I'd say maybe by the end of summer Holder falls on the sword for Obama.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Eric Holder grilled over Fast and Furious in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    No, I just want you to answer whether you gave the same kind of heat to a president who was responsible for 4000+ American deaths and countless injuries due to incompetence that you're giving to the current president over two deaths that most likely would have occurred anyway.

    chirp chirp
    Why Congress approved the use of force with Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi and Hillary Clinton all voting yes. Did you give them the kind of heat you give Bush?
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

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    Re: Eric Holder grilled over Fast and Furious in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Fact is you're wrong....

    Cornyn kinda sums it up



    I'd say maybe by the end of summer Holder falls on the sword for Obama.
    Holder must have had on asbestos pants or they surly would have burst into flames.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

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