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Thread: Eric Holder grilled over Fast and Furious in Congress

  1. #141
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    Re: Eric Holder grilled over Fast and Furious in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    I was correct. It became illegal as soon as it crossed the border.
    Illegal in which country? The DOJ cared little WHERE the crimes occurred, only that 'drug cartels' would be tied to those US weapons.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 06-12-12 at 05:36 PM.
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    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  2. #142
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    Re: Eric Holder grilled over Fast and Furious in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    See, I think it is actually two pronged...First is the curtailing of the 2nd Amendment, but only in a way like other European countries that allow hunting weapons (strictly documented) but ban all other weapons for legal purchase by its citizenry. Which would still be a taking of our fundamental rights. Second, was to back up the absurd claims that liberals, including Obama had been making over and over, concerning this type of thing happening outside the F/F program already, but they couldn't prove. In fact Obama and libs looked like flat out liars when they would make this claim, because the facts didn't support their rhetoric. They tried to make it so, and got burned. And I think that the OK for this thing was at least at the Homeland Security level, possibly in the National Security circle, which begs what did the President know, and when did he know it?


    j-mac
    This definitely goes to the top, as too many different FEDERAL agencies are involved, the local LEOs blew the whistle from nearly day one, but were told BY THE FEDS to hush up, also not a cool thing to make public.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  3. #143
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    Re: Eric Holder grilled over Fast and Furious in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Illegal in which country? The DOJ cared little WHERE the crimes occurred, only that 'drug cartels' would be tied to those US weapons.
    Illegal in both. ATF agents wanted to arrest the traffickers as soon as they handed the guns off to cartel gunrunners, but there were told they couldn't.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





  4. #144
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    Re: Eric Holder grilled over Fast and Furious in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Illegal in both. ATF agents wanted to arrest the traffickers as soon as they handed the guns off to cartel gunrunners, but there were told they couldn't.
    ATF was told no by WHO? For Obama/Holder that would be WAY too soon, they needed many THOUSANDS of these guns in circulation, to make the plan work. If you bust the first crew or two, then its not even a two day news story (200 guns siezed in ATF sting - whoopee), and the jig is up, the "straw buyers" know they are being watched and give it up; end of "story". But, if you let THOUSANDS get out there, then EVERY DAY OR TWO you get HEADLINES like this "Cartel violence caused by easy access to US weapons" in BOTH countries, causing a nearly universal cry for the FEDERAL gov't to "do something"; like maybe gun control?
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 06-12-12 at 05:49 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  5. #145
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    Re: Eric Holder grilled over Fast and Furious in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    and had he been killed by another weapon, how would that have changed anything
    sorry guys, you are running on empty with this one

    Your kidding with this comment aren't you?

    These guns were provided by our government. These guns killed American citizens. I don't know how much clearer this can be stated.

    And you don't seem to care. Sad that we've come to this point about other American citizens lives.

  6. #146
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    Re: Eric Holder grilled over Fast and Furious in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    It's so much fun to stick your hypocrisy back into your face, I can't help it.

    I don't have a hard on for Holder, I have one for incompetent amateurs like the ones running our country now. You must be the one supporting the Mexican cartels' right to black market guns since the guy you are defending supplied them to them.

    If tens of thousands of guns are walking across the border, then maybe you'll join us in demanding Holder's resignation, since you agree that he's incompetent.
    The only problem is that you can't seem to identify any hypocrisy and all you've got is a pathetic, illogical appeal to emotion.

    Bottom line: the mission was fubarred, though well intended. Whoever designed and supervised it should be ****canned. The insane Republican overreaction is 100% politically motivated.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

  7. #147
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    Re: Eric Holder grilled over Fast and Furious in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    Your kidding with this comment aren't you?

    These guns were provided by our government. These guns killed American citizens. I don't know how much clearer this can be stated.

    And you don't seem to care. Sad that we've come to this point about other American citizens lives.
    Just out of curiosity, did you support the Iraq war?
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

  8. #148
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    Re: Eric Holder grilled over Fast and Furious in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Illegal in which country? The DOJ cared little WHERE the crimes occurred, only that 'drug cartels' would be tied to those US weapons.
    The weapon became illegal in both countries actually. It was already illegal in Mexico due to the larger than .22 caliber and became illegal here due to the straw purchase under federal law.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  9. #149
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    Re: Eric Holder grilled over Fast and Furious in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    Your kidding with this comment aren't you?

    These guns were provided by our government. These guns killed American citizens. I don't know how much clearer this can be stated.

    And you don't seem to care. Sad that we've come to this point about other American citizens lives.
    We know the game. To some the ends justify the means, even if a son, father, etc. will never see another day with their loved ones, but hey, the ideology advances so those who adhere to it don't care.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  10. #150
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    Re: Eric Holder grilled over Fast and Furious in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    The weapon became illegal in both countries actually. It was already illegal in Mexico due to the larger than .22 caliber and became illegal here due to the straw purchase under federal law.
    No, the weapon is completely legal, as no title, receipt or registration is required for the legality of the weapon, only the PURCHASER broke the law, as they signed paperwork assuring that it was NOT a 'straw purchase'. The Mexican gun laws are none of our concern, just as the Ohio gun laws are of no great concern to Texans. Making things illegal, rather than the actions performed with those things is the liberals favorite ploy, separating personal responsibility (and individual rights) from gov't responsibility (and collective rights). My having a gun is of no more concern to you than my having a car, so long as I neither shoot you nor run you over. ;-)
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 06-12-12 at 07:23 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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