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Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

Ockham said:
And who's fault is that? Those tight wad unions didn't want to support their guy....

All the liberals seems to squawk about this morning is how Walker bought the election. Awww... I didn't see that complaint in 2008 when Obama (according to the liberals today) bought the election. If it's that simple, squeeze more money from your donors. :shrug:
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I would place the blame on the Supreme Court for issuing an idiotic decision. The unions simply don't have enough money to go toe-to-toe with corporate America.
 
AdamT said:
I would place the blame on the Supreme Court for issuing an idiotic decision. The unions simply don't have enough money to go toe-to-toe with corporate America.
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They should raise their dues.
 
AdamT said:
I would place the blame on the Supreme Court for issuing an idiotic decision. The unions simply don't have enough money to go toe-to-toe with corporate America.
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Good, public unions getting their money from the taxpayers has no business spending that money to take more from the taxpayers.
 
AdamT said:
I would place the blame on the Supreme Court for issuing an idiotic decision. The unions simply don't have enough money to go toe-to-toe with corporate America.
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I would place the blame on democrats that thought a recall election was a smart move so soon after the voters voted.

they came off looking horribly in this entire thing. V've been saying it for the last year as I am in Wisconsin often, but even democrats were largely opposed to this recall. You don't play these types of political games because you lost, but they forgot this fact.

Get away from Madison and Milwaukee and the writing was on the wall big time.
 
Conservative said:
Right to work states have better economic conditions than states where union membership is required as terms of employment. That is reality.
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If that's just a reality then it should be easy to prove. And yet....

In fact, right to work states are among the worst in terms of fiscal health. See South Carolina, Arizona, Arkansas, Mississippi, Louisiana, etc., etc.
 
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Conservative said:
Good, public unions getting their money from the taxpayers has no business spending that money to take more from the taxpayers.
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false. once we pay a person for the work they do, they have just as much right to funnel that into political action causes as you or I.
 
AdamT said:
I would place the blame on the Supreme Court for issuing an idiotic decision. The unions simply don't have enough money to go toe-to-toe with corporate America.
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Yet they have plenty of money to get their message out to the voters to consider. You make it sound like people are so stupid that the idea they see more often is the one that they will accept. I disagree with that assumption. I give people enough credit that if exposed to the opinion of both (many?) sides of any issue that they will decide which to agree with. I see countless commercials for many products that I will not buy, and a few that will get me to try something new. ;-)
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Yet they have plenty of money to get their message out to the voters to consider. You make it sound like people are so stupid that the idea they see more often is the one that they will accept. I disagree with that assumption. I give people enough credit that if exposed to the opinion of both (many?) sides of any issue that they will decide which to agree with. I see countless commercials for many products that I will not buy, and a few that will get me to try something new. ;-)
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So your theory is that a massive fundraising differential doesn't matter?

I would say that that's contradicted by thousands of elections.
 
AdamT said:
No, I'm just going to believe what's true. And you can't get an idea of union state versus non-union state fiscal situations by just looking at union states. It's pretty basic stuff.
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Nah, its a factor.

Fighting to Free Workers’ Paychecks from Union Bosses: Advancing the Right to Work | RedState
right-to-work-map.jpg

Persistent and acute state budget deficits? It
StateandLocalEmployment.jpg


10 States With the Largest Budget Shortfalls - US News and World Report
Shortfalls in the millions
California $21,300

Illinois 17,000

New Jersey 10,500

Texas 10,000

New York 8,200

Connecticut 3,800

Minnesota 3,800

North Carolina 3,000

Ohio 3,000

Florida (tie) 2,500

Oregon (tie) 2500
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ReverendHellh0und said:
:lol: exit polls, talks of violence, your desperation is apparent.
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Perhaps you do not know about exit polls and how they are utilized by professionals in the business?

As for talk of violence, perhaps you came in late to the discussion and do nto realize that I was replying at first to someone from your right end of the spectrum who was pontificating - in their usual style - about hoping that people turned to violence.

I have nothing to be desperate about. Life is going very very well right now. :2wave::peace:lol:
 
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Quag said:
Will you go on record as being 100% against rioting plain and simple. It is the inclusion of the word sensless that seems to imply that you would be for rioting is you in certain instances.
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Sure. I see no good coming out of rioting.
 
AdamT said:
You just have to look at your maps to see that many of the worst-off states are right to work states.
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Here are, according to the info he posted, the worst states (by far). There is a large drop off to get to the next level. Only one of the five worst are right to work.
California $21,300
Illinois 17,000
New Jersey 10,500
Texas 10,000
New York 8,200
 
AdamT said:
You just have to look at your maps to see that many of the worst-off states are right to work states.
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That one map is actually about concentration of government employees.

Though it is interesting that for all the talk of California's "big government" there are fewer government employees per thousand people than in Texas or Alaska, which are presumed to have smaller governments.
 
99percenter said:
That is fail article that ignores all the facts from the exit poll. It fails as much as you do here on a daily basis.
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the exit poll indicating a near toss up in the Governor race?

haha. you people are delusional. the exit poll was way off, it clearly put too high a weight on democrats to show such a close election that didn't materialize.

extrapolate the mistake, and this so called big lead is pretty questionable.

on the other hand, treating this election as a normal election is absurd. There was a non-partisan dislike for the way democrats played their hand in using the recall election.
 
rocket88 said:
So what, just put a dollar figure on all protests? I wonder how much in todays dollars MLK's "I have a dream" speech was worth to the pro-civil rights side? How much in publicity was the TPers disrupting Town Hall meetings across the country worth?

It's ridiculous to go down this road.
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Its not at all ridiculous. The majority of all campaign dollars goes into marketing...advertising. The unions ORGANIZED rallies. Union members not only participated but in the instance of school employees they brought their own students. Instead of having to pay for campaign adds, the unions and democrats had the entire MSNBC network running full length broadcasts. The numbers are pretty clear. The people disagree with the recall campaign. Maybe it has more to do woith where the state was and was headed before Walker was elected and less about securing union interests at the taxpayer expense.
 
ARealConservative said:
the exit poll indicating a near toss up in the Governor race?

haha. you people are delusional. the exit poll was way off, it clearly put too high a weight on democrats to show such a close election that didn't materialize.

extrapolate the mistake, and this so called big lead is pretty questionable.

on the other hand, treating this election as a normal election is absurd. There was a non-partisan dislike for the way democrats played their hand in using the recall election.
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Why is it questionable? i think reagan was the last GOP president wisconsin voted for. 18% of walker voters said they will vote for obama? Do you seriously thing wisconsin is in play? I don't unless another recession happens and i dont think that's likely.
 
99percenter said:
That is fail article that ignores all the facts from the exit poll. It fails as much as you do here on a daily basis.
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NO, what the article did is something you never do and that is to analyze the data from the exit polls, you know those exit polls that called the election too close to call?
 
AdamT said:
You just have to look at your maps to see that many of the worst-off states are right to work states.
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Actually no. The best measure of a States fiscal health is their bond rating, or most specifically, the cost of bond insurance, as this goes most to the risk of default.

Here is a fairly current map color-coded and with ratings. Illinois and California are the lowest rated.:

Monday Map: State Credit Ratings | Tax Foundation

After those two, are Michigan, New Jersey, and Arizona.

The reason such as Florida is rated high in credit worthiness, while it was also on the top 10 debt list, is that Florida has plenty of tax resources available. It is not "tapped-out" as such as CA and IL.

I would suggest that a well-informed opinion on a few things is better than an uninformed opinion on everything. ;)
 
99percenter said:
Why is it questionable? i think reagan was the last GOP president wisconsin voted for. 18% of walker voters said they will vote for obama? Do you seriously thing wisconsin is in play? I don't unless another recession happens and i dont think that's likely.
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23 million unemployed and under Employed Americans TODAY are in a recession or worse a depression and it is due to the Obama economic policies that are a failure.
 
Conservative said:
NO, what the article did is something you never do and that is to analyze the data from the exit polls, you know those exit polls that called the election too close to call?
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No exit poll said that. Pre-election polls maybe. Exit polls... no.
 
Eighty Deuce said:
Actually no. The best measure of a States fiscal health is their bond rating, or most specifically, the cost of bond insurance, as this goes most to the risk of default.

Here is a fairly current map color-coded and with ratings. Illinois and California are the lowest rated.:

Monday Map: State Credit Ratings | Tax Foundation

After those two, are Michigan, New Jersey, and Arizona.

The reason such as Florida is rated high in credit worthiness, while it was also on the top 10 debt list, is that Florida has plenty of tax resources available. It is not "tapped-out" as such as CA and IL.

I would suggest that a well-informed opinion on a few things is better than an uninformed opinion on everything. ;)
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Excellent post but you are talking to people who believe in an ideology so much that they ignore actual data and facts.
 
VanceMack said:
Its not at all ridiculous. The majority of all campaign dollars goes into marketing...advertising. The unions ORGANIZED rallies. Union members not only participated but in the instance of school employees they brought their own students. Instead of having to pay for campaign adds, the unions and democrats had the entire MSNBC network running full length broadcasts. The numbers are pretty clear. The people disagree with the recall campaign. Maybe it has more to do woith where the state was and was headed before Walker was elected and less about securing union interests at the taxpayer expense.
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Sure, but the TP rallies got plenty of coverage on Fox (this isn't about Fox, but their lean is as clear as MSNBC's), and that probably helped Republicans in the 2010 election, and maybe this year too. Big political demonstrations get news coverage. So sure, it didn't hurt to have the rallies that the unions had, but that's not a bad thing.

And I don't care about how much was spent on Walker's behalf. Unions and Democrats were just as able to spend an equal amount in support of the recall. They didn't, but whose fault is that, right?
 
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