Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

haymarket said:

Apparently you missed the obvious GODFATHER reference?

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No I saw it... gonna answer the question or side step again.... your choice.

haymarket said:

Do you really believe that when you attack worker rights and pass laws against them that there will be no repercussions from them?

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Walker: 53% . . . . . .Barrett: 46%

Yep, with reperucussions like that it's no surprise you're "not" advocating that violence needs to occur.

cpwill said:

Not at all. I point out that training, numbers, and experience give invaluable edges in an urban guerrilla conflict.



Certainly anyone can be killed. Even Presidents have been killed. However, doing so today would require not only a degree of training and access to resources that is not rare, but not a little bit of luck and the willingness to be killed in the attempt. That is why security forces exist, after all - to make the cost barrier too high and deter threats.

What you cannot do however, is kill anyone without cost or retaliation. Which was the point of my post. If in a hypothetical angry union members were to go to war with the Kochs, the Kochs have the ability to protect themselves from Union attack while also having access to much better offensive capabilities than the unions. Your mental masturbation / kill fantasies run smack dab into two serious problems : 1. very few of your allies would actually have the guts and skill set to do it 2. many more of your opponents have the skill set and guts to retaliate in kind.

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I do not argue with some of your points. But you are missing others.

Targets are chosen for many reasons - one being the opportunity and accessibility they present. If one is not available, there are others.

As to paying a price, of course, that is part of the game is it not? The suicide bombers have told us loud and clear that a very small number of people willing to pay that price can do a great deal of damage despite their obvious technological and formal training shortcomings compared to the dominant culture they target. 911 is but one example. I believe the people of New York City do not need to be reminded of that sad reality.

Zyphlin said:

Walker: 53% . . . . . .Barrett: 46%

Yep, with reperucussions like that it's no surprise you're "not" advocating that violence needs to occur.

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The only surprise is why you continue to push a lie?

On second thought, cross out the word SURPRISE.

Do you also blame the weatherman for tropical storms?

haymarket said:

...The Walker radical agenda is dead. That is significant and that is a real win.
.

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hmm, you infer that violence against your opposition would be a good thing, and Walker is the "Radical"?

ReverendHellh0und said:

Right, manning up to your words, not for you.... Only one person here, really has brought up violence, and more than once, and that's you. Why is that?

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cognitive dissonance takes my bet.

haymarket said:

No game needed to be changed. However, the game was played on two fields last night and only one was getting attention. The ignorati seemed obsessed with a single branch of government that they held onto while one which was in their tight little fist was lost to them.

That is not changing the game - as you so inaccurately put it - it is merely showing both games that were played in Wisconsin last night.

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:lol: I have 17 pages of threads on Walker where you took part in, only today you seem to be harping the booby prize over what you obsessed over for months. :thumbs:

Ockham said:

No I saw it... gonna answer the question or side step again.... your choice.

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You mean this 'question'?

So if someone doesn't agree with you here, are they also racists for not buying into your assassination support?

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I took that as an over the top use of hyperbole and gross exaggeration in a lame attempt to be a wise guy.

ReverendHellh0und said:

:lol: I have 17 pages of threads on Walker where you took part in, only today you seem to be harping the booby prize over what you obsessed over for months. :thumbs:

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I did not realize I wrote 17 pages about Walker. :roll::lamo

Your computer screen must be radically different than mine.

You do realize that there was more than one "game" in Wisconsin yesterday? That is a simple fact of reality.

randel said:

we shall see what the investigation turns up....we shall see....either way, if the dems win the senate, walker is a eunuch......

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Using that term to define a guy with the biggest set of political balls I've seen in my lifetime is absurd. Walker's agenda was moved, seconded and carried by a surprisingly high margin. If you don't think Wisconsin Democratic legislators "got a message" from this victory, you would be 100% wrong. Don't try to turn this into a victory for liberals. It is not.

It is a victory for taxpayers everywhere.

haymarket said:

You have found me out. You have pulled back the curtain and found the man pulling the levers of chaos.

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If only I could blame you for the mind numbing instances of the Zimmerman case but alas it's just a poor attempt at satire. Sadly the satire is not much more transparent than your call for "peace". Having a mentality of giving out marching orders of dirty tactics and methods while putting a thin coat of protection that makes lip gloss look thick over top of it is a mentality, style, and tactic in a general sense....that's not saying those who do it are all criminal master minds ravaging the country side. It's just a methodology and mindset that I find troubling. How many other Democratic representitives might there be giving lengthy diatribes about how the Koch brother's should have violence against them and various people should be targetted followed by a short one off wink and nod at a desire for "peace".

haymarket said:

I do not argue with some of your points. But you are missing others.

Targets are chosen for many reasons - one being the opportunity and accessibility they present.

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We use a tool called a CARVER score.

If one is not available, there are others.

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That is correct. While, for example, the Koch brothers themselves would be "hard" targets (they have inherent protective mechanisms built into the target system), unions would be relatively "soft" targets (they do not).

As to paying a price, of course, that is part of the game is it not?

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You'll have to forgive me if I don't look at Public Unions Membership right now and see a large corps of people willing to engage in self-sacrifice.

The suicide bombers have told us loud and clear that a very small number of people willing to pay that price can do a great deal of damage despite their obvious technological and formal training shortcomings compared to the dominant culture they target. 911 is but one example. I believe the people of New York City do not need to be reminded of that sad reality.

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9/11 is actually an excellent example for you to bring up. Which do you think has seen greater casualties and degradation of the target system - New York since 9/11? Or AQ - allied networks in the 11 years since?

Just as you are describing, a bunch of angry semi-nihilist decided to vent their rage in an act of symbolic violence.... only to spend the next few years blowing up courtesy of US Veterans.

haymarket said:

No doubt that in 1775 the exact same assessment of strengths could have been made regarding the colonies and the British army. No doubt the exact same assessment could have been made about the power of the US armed forces and the comparatively tiny Vietnamese insurgents in the early Sixties.

I wonder why both turned out so differently then expected by those kind of traditional evaluations?

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Logistics and will. Quit posting stupid things.

After last night's enormous victory for the taxpayers of Wisconsin, there's more Union busting to get to. To all the parasite public employee unions, the free-stuff gravy train is ending for you.

haymarket said:

Perhaps you missed the split decision last night in your fervor to attack unions and their members?

Yes, THE Republicans held onto the Governors office - one branch of the government. But it appears that Democrats gained in the State Senate and now are a majority. The day of total GOP control of state government and having their way at will is now over.

Ding dong the wicked witch is dead.

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You should use words that actually apply to what occured.

Ther was no "split decision" last night. There were Six recall elections going on in Wisconsin last night. Of those six, five of them were won by Republicans. There was no "Split Decision" regarding the votes last night.

Now, the one loss results in the loss of the Senate...however, the fact that one seat swinging decides that fate, and the fact that Republicans won 5 out of 6 last night, indicates that the Democratic support in the state during the last election cycle set them up in a position to take it even if they lost massively with regards to the Recall effort....which, losing 5 out of 6 battles is pretty big.

At best you can say that we have a split government in WI as a result. But there was no "split decision" concerning last night's races. On terms of recalling people and giving them "repercussions" for the attempts regarding the budgetary issues of the state....the people of Wisconsin supported five of the six individuals that Democrats tried to oust. That's not a split.

haymarket said:

I did not realize I wrote 17 pages about Walker. :roll::lamo

Your computer screen must be radically different than mine.

You do realize that there was more than one "game" in Wisconsin yesterday? That is a simple fact of reality.

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Read it more slowly this time...


I said:

your better said:

I have 17 pages of threads on Walker where you took part in,

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You took part in over 17 pages of threads on this subject...


And yes, there was what, 6? you lost 5. so sad for you.

MaggieD said:

Using that term to define a guy with the biggest set of political balls I've seen in my lifetime is absurd. Walker's agenda was moved, seconded and carried by a surprisingly high margin. If you don't think Wisconsin Democratic legislators "got a message" from this victory, you would be 100% wrong. Don't try to turn this into a victory for liberals. It is not.

It is a victory for taxpayers everywhere.

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short of walker being out on his ass, this is a big victory....wisconsin senate back in democratic control, walker is a EUNUCH....

randel said:

good good good......make walker a eunuch for the rest of his term.....

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I'm sure this will be the intelligent thing to do going into an election year. After all, it's not like a majoirty of the state voted him back into office knowing full well the actions he's taken. Not like five out of the six individuals that were recalled didn't get voted back in, with 3 of the 4 senators winning by 14% or more. I'm sure capitalizing on a single victory after the year+ of hub bub over what Walker did to attempt and neuter him is definitely going to provide great dividens come election time and won't cause the Democrats to lose control back in the Senate.

haymarket said:

No game needed to be changed. However, the game was played on two fields last night and only one was getting attention. The ignorati seemed obsessed with a single branch of government that they held onto while one which was in their tight little fist was lost to them.

That is not changing the game - as you so inaccurately put it - it is merely showing both games that were played in Wisconsin last night.

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It's not that tight of a fist when you hold it by one seat.

Also, how much were you talking about the Senate battle here on the site prior to today. How much were you talking about Walker? Look at those numbers and tell me what ground you have to stand on to lecture about people being "obssessed" with a single branch of government and insinuating they're ignorant for doing so.

randel said:

short of walker being out on his ass, this is a big victory....wisconsin senate back in democratic control, walker is a EUNUCH....

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So all the mouth foaming for a year over this recall, is suddenly not a big deal to the lunatic fringe left?



who do you think you are fooling? :lamo

randel said:

short of walker being out on his ass, this is a big victory....wisconsin senate back in democratic control, walker is a EUNUCH....

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So short of the thing Democrat pundets, posters, supporters, unions, and politicians were focused on for months now...it's a big win!

You sound like the New England Patriots patting themselves on the back for winning the AFC Championship game and trying to convince people the Super Bowl didn't matter.

Zyphlin said:

It's not that tight of a fist when you hold it by one seat.

Also, how much were you talking about the Senate battle here on the site prior to today. How much were you talking about Walker? Look at those numbers and tell me what ground you have to stand on to lecture about people being "obssessed" with a single branch of government and insinuating they're ignorant for doing so.

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I did a search on keyword: Walker User: haymarket

Results were 17 pages of results with threads on walker, that he took part in. I think that speaks for itself.

Zyphlin said:

If only I could blame you for the mind numbing instances of the Zimmerman case but alas it's just a poor attempt at satire. Sadly the satire is not much more transparent than your call for "peace". Having a mentality of giving out marching orders of dirty tactics and methods while putting a thin coat of protection that makes lip gloss look thick over top of it is a mentality, style, and tactic in a general sense....that's not saying those who do it are all criminal master minds ravaging the country side. It's just a methodology and mindset that I find troubling. How many other Democratic representitives might there be giving lengthy diatribes about how the Koch brother's should have violence against them and various people should be targetted followed by a short one off wink and nod at a desire for "peace".

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And do you also blame the weatherman for tropical storms, tornado's and other disasters because they told of the conditions which would create them?

MaggieD said:

Don, I will not forget your initial post on this topic many months ago. You called Walker's actions a "scorched earth" policy. I agree with you. And, frankly? I'm surprised he held up. But. I'm grateful.

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It was a classic scorched earth battle. The key to consolidating one's gains is whether one can show concrete results afterward. Such results enable one to argue that the sacrifice was worth it. With Wisconsin's unemployment rate having fallen from 7.5% just before Governor Walker took office to 6.7% in April (latest available figure on a statewide basis) and the state having returned to a fiscal surplus, Governor Walker was in a good position to argue that there had been meaningful progress. He could also assert that the worst of the sacrifices were over (meaning less pain and fewer divisive political battles lie ahead). Even as his final margin of victory shrunk to 7 points (reflecting the margin by which voters supported his handling of job creation in the exit poll), it was an impressive win, especially considering the high voter turnout.

In general, tough policies followed by evidence of concrete results can provide a political leader with a winning hand. One witnessed similar dynamics in the UK when Prime Minister Thatcher triumphed after defying the once powerful National Union of Mineworkers after that union had attempted to bring down the UK government with its heavy-handed tactics and a strike aimed at hurting British residents during what proved to be an unusually severe winter. Some two years after the NUM's strike had been shattered, Thatcher won a third term on account of a growing economy, falling unemployment rate, and low inflation (concrete results).

ReverendHellh0und said:

I did a search on keyword: Walker User: haymarket

Results were 17 pages of results with threads on walker, that he took part in. I think that speaks for itself.

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Actually it says precious little beyond a gross number that says nothing in and of itself about the content or details.